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Administrators. Not to one super administrator that's soaking up all the money, but to an array of administrators in various, emerging roles. Anecdotal: When I

Administrators. Not to one super administrator that's soaking up all the money, but to an array of administrators in various, emerging roles. Anecdotal: When I went to undergrad, all of the student advisors were tenured faculty members doing it as part of their job responsibilities. When I went to grad school a few years later, the advisors were all full-time advisors, and all the departments had instructional designers to consult when creating courses.

impendia 7y ago
I am curious -- were the departments, in fact, consulting the instructional designers? And, if yes, was it by choice?
- barbecue_sauce 7y ago
  As a TA, I was only privy to certain discussions. There was talk of the instructional designer, mostly in the sense of "Maybe we should get the instructional designer involved!", but I never encountered the instructional designer in the wild.
jimbokun 7y ago
If I were a student, I would prefer to be advised by an actual faculty member, than by a "full-time adviser" divorced from everyday instruction responsibilities.
- kyleamazza 7y ago
  Not that I disagree, but I had the opportunity to have both cases, each at separate schools. Having a (capable) full-time adviser meant that they were well-versed in the requirements of the program, as well as how to navigate administrative side of things, such as adding classes even if you don't fill the prereqs, etc. With a faculty member, I found that they were more focused on their actual faculty/teaching duties, and had trouble with the more administrative side of things. This is also probably dependent on the quality of the school
  - impendia 7y ago
    I'm a math professor, asked to serve as an advisor frequently. I typically advise math majors -- and I do a fairly good job of it. Although I tend to have difficulty with the administrative side of things, especially since our degree requirements are a moving target. That said, our faculty used to advise incoming students as well. From what I understand, our undergraduate director (tenured faculty) would do all the advisement personally, during the summer, himself. One summer he was out of town a lot and asked me to fill in for him for a day. I was not very happy to be asked to show up during the summer. For one thing, typically faculty are paid only during the academic year, unless it's from grants (although I happened to be getting summer salary that year). But also, the advisees were mostly freshman who weren't ready to take math-major courses yet. They wanted general advice on how to navigate the system, which gen-ed requirements to get out of the way, whether to take "University 101", and the like. Although I did my best, I felt quite out of my element.
chrisseaton 7y ago
> Anecdotal: When I went to undergrad, all of the student advisors were tenured faculty members doing it as part of their job responsibilities. When I went to grad school a few years later, the advisors were all full-time advisors, and all the departments had instructional designers to consult when creating courses. Can't tell if you think this is a good thing or not?
- barbecue_sauce 7y ago
  Seemed pretty silly to me. Universities seem to have become a jobs program for middle class functionaries who don't actually have academic credentials.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    But before the academics were doing non-academic jobs like student advising? Seems better now?
    - barbecue_sauce 7y ago
      Academics should be doing advising.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        Maybe I don't know what you mean - do you mean a career advisor? What do academics know about careers outside academia?
        asdff 7y ago
        I was in a similar situation as this other commenter. Undergrad for biology and grad school for biology. Guess who gave me better career advice, the guy in the field for 3 decades, or the 26 year old with a online degree in human resources from directional state?
        7y ago
larnmar 7y ago
Funny part is that all these extra administrators don’t actually help out the faculty much. Thirty years ago, most senior professors had secretaries, but now secretaries are almost unheard of. Individual professors wind up spending most of their time on ridiculous administrivia required to keep their grants. If an administrator sticks his or her head into a profrssor’s life, it’s to make it harder, not easier.
- impendia 7y ago
  > Funny part is that all these extra administrators don’t actually help out the faculty much. For the most part, it's not part of their job descriptions. Some things which have grown: student services; "Student Success" centers and the like; advising; IT; compliance with various grant agency and accreditation requirements (which seem to be growing); institutional efforts to further diversity and inclusion. As an example, my understanding is that universities are doing much more to identify, and try to help, at-risk students than they were before. The new administrators hired into these roles will cheerfully work with faculty as appropriate, but it's a much more student-facing than faculty-facing role.

impendia 7y ago

I am curious -- were the departments, in fact, consulting the instructional designers? And, if yes, was it by choice?

barbecue_sauce 7y ago
As a TA, I was only privy to certain discussions. There was talk of the instructional designer, mostly in the sense of "Maybe we should get the instructional designer involved!", but I never encountered the instructional designer in the wild.

jimbokun 7y ago

If I were a student, I would prefer to be advised by an actual faculty member, than by a "full-time adviser" divorced from everyday instruction responsibilities.

kyleamazza 7y ago
Not that I disagree, but I had the opportunity to have both cases, each at separate schools. Having a (capable) full-time adviser meant that they were well-versed in the requirements of the program, as well as how to navigate administrative side of things, such as adding classes even if you don't fill the prereqs, etc. With a faculty member, I found that they were more focused on their actual faculty/teaching duties, and had trouble with the more administrative side of things. This is also probably dependent on the quality of the school
- impendia 7y ago
  I'm a math professor, asked to serve as an advisor frequently. I typically advise math majors -- and I do a fairly good job of it. Although I tend to have difficulty with the administrative side of things, especially since our degree requirements are a moving target. That said, our faculty used to advise incoming students as well. From what I understand, our undergraduate director (tenured faculty) would do all the advisement personally, during the summer, himself. One summer he was out of town a lot and asked me to fill in for him for a day. I was not very happy to be asked to show up during the summer. For one thing, typically faculty are paid only during the academic year, unless it's from grants (although I happened to be getting summer salary that year). But also, the advisees were mostly freshman who weren't ready to take math-major courses yet. They wanted general advice on how to navigate the system, which gen-ed requirements to get out of the way, whether to take "University 101", and the like. Although I did my best, I felt quite out of my element.

chrisseaton 7y ago

> Anecdotal: When I went to undergrad, all of the student advisors were tenured faculty members doing it as part of their job responsibilities. When I went to grad school a few years later, the advisors were all full-time advisors, and all the departments had instructional designers to consult when creating courses. Can't tell if you think this is a good thing or not?

barbecue_sauce 7y ago
Seemed pretty silly to me. Universities seem to have become a jobs program for middle class functionaries who don't actually have academic credentials.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  But before the academics were doing non-academic jobs like student advising? Seems better now?
  - barbecue_sauce 7y ago
    Academics should be doing advising.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      Maybe I don't know what you mean - do you mean a career advisor? What do academics know about careers outside academia?
      - asdff 7y ago
        I was in a similar situation as this other commenter. Undergrad for biology and grad school for biology. Guess who gave me better career advice, the guy in the field for 3 decades, or the 26 year old with a online degree in human resources from directional state?
        7y ago

larnmar 7y ago

Funny part is that all these extra administrators don’t actually help out the faculty much. Thirty years ago, most senior professors had secretaries, but now secretaries are almost unheard of. Individual professors wind up spending most of their time on ridiculous administrivia required to keep their grants. If an administrator sticks his or her head into a profrssor’s life, it’s to make it harder, not easier.

impendia 7y ago
> Funny part is that all these extra administrators don’t actually help out the faculty much. For the most part, it's not part of their job descriptions. Some things which have grown: student services; "Student Success" centers and the like; advising; IT; compliance with various grant agency and accreditation requirements (which seem to be growing); institutional efforts to further diversity and inclusion. As an example, my understanding is that universities are doing much more to identify, and try to help, at-risk students than they were before. The new administrators hired into these roles will cheerfully work with faculty as appropriate, but it's a much more student-facing than faculty-facing role.