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Did any of these production problems relate to the MCAS malfunction though? Also, this is buried further down in the article than it should be. > Mr. Pierson

Did any of these production problems relate to the MCAS malfunction though? Also, this is buried further down in the article than it should be. > Mr. Pierson and his lawyers declined to answer whether he was seeking whistle-blower protection or filing a federal whistle-blower case. He has hired a prominent whistle-blower lawyer, Eric Havian, and could stand to gain monetarily if he pursued such a case.

joezydeco 7y ago
If the AoA vanes were installed incorrectly, perhaps so? "Mr. Pierson believes that the production problems may have played a role in the crashes. In both accidents, MCAS was triggered when a vane installed on the plane’s fuselage malfunctioned." "Workers were completing jobs out of sequence, leading to additional mistakes."
- yread 7y ago
  AoA vanes are usually very reliable and rarely fail in other types
  - joezydeco 7y ago
    Are they reliable only when installed properly, or even when they're installed incorrectly?
AndrewBissell 7y ago
Compensation for filing legitimate claims is an important carrot to encourage people with inside information to speak out. Whistleblowers are routinely subjected to intense retaliation and professional difficulties when they come forward, and the process of claiming and securing an award takes years. Everything this whistleblower is saying seems consistent with dozens of other stories which have emerged of Boeing's corroded engineering practices.
- romaaeterna 7y ago
  > Compensation for filing legitimate claims is an important carrot to encourage people with inside information to speak out I've found over the course of my life that money encourages all sorts of people to say all sorts of things.
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    The lack of money, on the other hand, has caused many to keep their mouths shut.
  - AndrewBissell 7y ago
    That's nice. I'm not sure exactly what you think is happening here, but "make up a bunch of stuff and use it to pursue a whistleblower claim" doesn't strike me as a very appealing or sound strategy for ill-gotten gains. This isn't something that gets litigated in backroom discussions or tabloid news outlets.
    - romaaeterna 7y ago
      Have you ever been in a courtroom? Not a lot of neutral statements of unvarnished truth pass back and forth there. Some do, but not many. I am extraordinarily worried about the precedent of paying witnesses for their testimony, which is what this amounts to. However good we think that our reasons may be.
      - generatorguy 7y ago
        Expert witnesses get paid for their testimony all the time.
        romaaeterna 7y ago
        Expert witnesses are paid by the hour, and still get paid whether the case is won or lost. The abuses of honesty in the expert witnesses system are still horrific enough.
bumby 7y ago
I think what they are pointing at is that the culture of "schedule first" may have prevented good process execution, including software development. For example, it seems like they didn't follow their own procedures regarding the system safety analysis as it relates to MCAS: "Assessed a failure of the system as one level below “catastrophic.” But even that “hazardous” danger level should have precluded activation of the system based on input from a single sensor — and yet that’s how it was designed."[1]. There are also examples of incomplete documentation, etc. that may contribute to a lack of understanding of the overall system. My tendency is to think a culture of schedule pressure may contribute to this. [1] https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/faile...
ceejayoz 7y ago
> Did any of these production problems relate to the MCAS malfunction though? I mean, the concern would be that MCAS is just the tip of the iceberg, and that similar fuckups exist within the planes due to this management trouble.
heisenbit 7y ago
> Did any of these production problems relate to the MCAS malfunction though? There is some speculation in the article that the vane malfunctioned too frequently which may be rooted in production problems.

joezydeco 7y ago

If the AoA vanes were installed incorrectly, perhaps so? "Mr. Pierson believes that the production problems may have played a role in the crashes. In both accidents, MCAS was triggered when a vane installed on the plane’s fuselage malfunctioned." "Workers were completing jobs out of sequence, leading to additional mistakes."

yread 7y ago
AoA vanes are usually very reliable and rarely fail in other types
- joezydeco 7y ago
  Are they reliable only when installed properly, or even when they're installed incorrectly?

AndrewBissell 7y ago

Compensation for filing legitimate claims is an important carrot to encourage people with inside information to speak out. Whistleblowers are routinely subjected to intense retaliation and professional difficulties when they come forward, and the process of claiming and securing an award takes years. Everything this whistleblower is saying seems consistent with dozens of other stories which have emerged of Boeing's corroded engineering practices.

romaaeterna 7y ago
> Compensation for filing legitimate claims is an important carrot to encourage people with inside information to speak out I've found over the course of my life that money encourages all sorts of people to say all sorts of things.
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  The lack of money, on the other hand, has caused many to keep their mouths shut.
- AndrewBissell 7y ago
  That's nice. I'm not sure exactly what you think is happening here, but "make up a bunch of stuff and use it to pursue a whistleblower claim" doesn't strike me as a very appealing or sound strategy for ill-gotten gains. This isn't something that gets litigated in backroom discussions or tabloid news outlets.
  - romaaeterna 7y ago
    Have you ever been in a courtroom? Not a lot of neutral statements of unvarnished truth pass back and forth there. Some do, but not many. I am extraordinarily worried about the precedent of paying witnesses for their testimony, which is what this amounts to. However good we think that our reasons may be.
    - generatorguy 7y ago
      Expert witnesses get paid for their testimony all the time.
      - romaaeterna 7y ago
        Expert witnesses are paid by the hour, and still get paid whether the case is won or lost. The abuses of honesty in the expert witnesses system are still horrific enough.

bumby 7y ago

I think what they are pointing at is that the culture of "schedule first" may have prevented good process execution, including software development. For example, it seems like they didn't follow their own procedures regarding the system safety analysis as it relates to MCAS: "Assessed a failure of the system as one level below “catastrophic.” But even that “hazardous” danger level should have precluded activation of the system based on input from a single sensor — and yet that’s how it was designed."[1]. There are also examples of incomplete documentation, etc. that may contribute to a lack of understanding of the overall system. My tendency is to think a culture of schedule pressure may contribute to this. [1] https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/failed-certification-faa-missed-safety-issues-in-the-737-max-system-implicated-in-the-lion-air-crash/ https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/faile...

ceejayoz 7y ago

> Did any of these production problems relate to the MCAS malfunction though? I mean, the concern would be that MCAS is just the tip of the iceberg, and that similar fuckups exist within the planes due to this management trouble.

heisenbit 7y ago

> Did any of these production problems relate to the MCAS malfunction though? There is some speculation in the article that the vane malfunctioned too frequently which may be rooted in production problems.