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Thieves Are Using Bluetooth to Target Vehicle Break-Ins
- scohesc 7y agoSo the summary of the article is: "Don't leave valuables in your car that you don't want to risk getting stolen" I guess the author is bringing this to light in the blog post, but don't people see this in parking lots of shopping malls or community centers to apply this everywhere? It would be even more relevant, since you're going on a trail and aren't near your car for potentially days at a time depending on route you take... but still! :\
- altec3 7y agoI'd say it's more about how thieves have started to use bluetooth scanners to determine if something very valuable is in your car. If they can tell a macbook is in your car, but your glovebox, center console or trunk are locked, they'll go to extra lengths to break into them.
- barbecue_sauce 7y agoCan you get a bluetooth signal from a MacBook when its sleeping?
- gnicholas 7y agoI believe you can, but not when it’s off. It may depend on your sleep settings (“wake for network activity” or “power nap”). I’m not an expert though — just my recollection.
- president 7y agoAlso "Allow Bluetooth devices to wake this computer" in Bluetooth settings.
- MrQuincle 7y agoThen, would the computer not need to listen rather than broadcast? PS: I know quite a lot about Bluetooth, although mostly about BLE. I don't see a reason why the device should be broadcasting anything. If it is scanning for BLE devices it can do "passive scanning". Is this about ordinary Bluetooth and is that different? PS 2: Why is this different for Wifi? When a device is not connected to Wifi it sends probe requests for access points. My intuition would blame Wifi rather than Bluetooth. However, perhaps I don't know enough about old-fashioned Bluetooth. Or the device manufacturers have implementations that do not make sense from a privacy/security perspective.
- vorpalhex 7y agoBluetooth hosts aren't entirely passive as I understand it.
- snarfy 7y agoYes according to the article.
- tclancy 7y agoThat's a little misleading. It's more like this technique has made stealing stuff from cars more rewarding than just swiping off-brand sunglasses and a CD wallet. It goes from smash & grab at quantity to targeted smashing for quality.
- closetohome 7y agoYeah the technique may be somewhat novel, but the solution (don't leave valuables in your car) is more or less the first thing I learned when I moved to a city 20 years ago.
- officeplant 7y agoThis and don't overly tint your windows. My friends with tinted windows have suffered far more break ins in my experience. Even if there was nothing to steal it gave the impression of hiding something. Same thing goes for stickers that advertise products you've bought that might be in the car.
- Jamwinner 7y agoTint used to be tied in closely to the car-audio community. It is also an indication you spend money on your car, and on other luxury items. Notice how often cars with obviously aftermarket tint also have aftermarket wheels. Pretty good target if you ask me. That said, if you leave your macbook on the seat in clear view, broadcasting bluetooth, or blasting music, the non-tinted car will suddenly be disadvantaged. I used to like tint, but found it was a bigger cop magnet than a crime magnet personally.
- kortilla 7y agoNo, it’s pretty common to assume that hiding things out of site is fine. Many signs in parking lots even explicitly state not to leave valuables visible.
- hrktb 7y agoYou are right, but until now it was mostly safe to leave electronics hidden well enough. For instance when on duty, it is very convenient to just keep a laptop buried in the trunk and go shopping or do anything you want as long as you can get back to the car fast enough. Now I guess shutdown routines will be needed.
- jaclaz 7y agoSemi-random idea of the day. Would there be a market for something like a dye pack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye_pack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye_pack emitting fake MacBook-like Bluetooth signals? (and would they be legal?) You'll still have your car window broken, but someone will need a lot of time to get clean ...
- tclancy 7y agoBonus points if it turns the thief's teeth a satisfyingly deep blue.
- buckminster 7y agoA tempting pack of custom candy next to the macbook might do it.
- gxon 7y agoIs an unconfirmed sense of schadenfreude really worth losing more money for a theft? Maybe it's worth it if the device is also streaming video so you can share the experience with the world, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoxhDk-hwuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoxhDk-hwuo Also, it's probably more likely that the device gets triggered accidentally than it is likely to get stolen.
- curiouscats 7y agoPolice departments could do this as they have done with "bait cars" to catch those who engage in this behavior. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_car https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bait_car
- logfromblammo 7y agoBait cars are a police-state tactic. Just normal, Peelian-principled policing for me, thanks. Hunting and tracking, not fishing and trapping. Which is to say make better efforts to actually solve property crimes that occur naturally, rather than manufacturing crimes for the purpose of resolving them more easily.
- gruez 7y ago>So what can you do to keep your stuff safe? Putting a device in airplane mode or entirely powering it off will both work [...] For additional protection, you can place those devices in a Faraday fabric sleeve ...or you know, turn off bluetooth.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tclancy 7y agoRight, but that's the asymmetry of theft: all I have to do is mess up one time. It's the unfairness in Full Metal Jacket when Private Pyle is told if it wasn't for people like him (who forget to lock stuff) there would be no theft in the world.
- georgeplusplus 7y agoYou can disable Bluetooth by default and enable it only when used.
- lsofzz 7y ago> You can disable Bluetooth by default and enable it only when used. You are missing the point. Ever heard of secure by default?
- lsofzz 7y agoExpanding on it further, what I mean is that our BT stack should be built from ground up with security in mind. We cannot fight every attack surface but we probably can get to all the low hanging ones that the crims can exploit. One day in some utopia probably. I as a user of BT stack do not have to worry about whether it is switched on or off. This is what I mean by _secure by default_. Downvoter - thank you. I took time to explain what I mean this time :)
- OrgNet 7y agoor get a bluetooth device that broadcast 100s of networks, that might scare them off
- gxon 7y agoThis seems like a trivial problem for law enforcement to honeypot. You wouldn't even need to actively monitor. Just get an alert when the devices start moving and dispatch officers to track them down. If thieves start getting clever and putting the stolen goods in a Faraday cage, then add a camera to monitor and capture faces/plates. Hell, add hidden cameras to all major trailheads and don't even bother with the honeypot. Obviously, there's funding and expertise issues with a solution like this. But is it really that significant or just law enforcement complacency?
- mikefallen 7y agoYeah cuz what we need is more cameras installed by the gov invading our privacy. You think they should implement facial recognition on them too? Don't leave values in your car easy as that ....
- rkho 7y agoRegardless of the crime committed, victim blaming is not the correct response.
- Jamwinner 7y agoIsnt putting everyone under scrutiny for the bad act of one person as bad as victim blaming? Glad I live where I dont have to lock my doors. You surveilence obsessed kind make me uneasy.
- perl4ever 7y agoOdd how it isn't "surveillance" when criminals monitor people. I think there's a certain age where you start seeing things differently, biologically.
- dredmorbius 7y agoIt's possible to make the first point without leaping directly to the second.
- 7y ago
- mataug 7y agoConversely can I use Bluetooth signal strength to find devices within my home ?
- ObsoleteNerd 7y agoFTA: > Using signal strength as a distance meter, I found the phone my fiancée misplaced before she went to work.
- ghaff 7y agoI played around with Bluetooth Low Energy beacons a couple years ago and it seemed really tricky to locate things. Reflections, walls, etc. just introduced too many random variables. I'd love it to be better. (And maybe newer versions of at least full Bluetooth are.) Something I imagine to be useful if it were sufficiently reliable is some sort of "digital tether" between an Apple Watch and iPhone that buzzes you if you get too far separated. (Obviously not something to use all the time but could be useful in some circumstances.)
- vorpalhex 7y agoThis is the idea of tile trackers, except they also emit noise so you can use that once you get pretty close. I'd imagine intentionally directional antennas would be helpful here, much like is used for ham radio foxhunts.
- ghaff 7y agoI keep thinking of trying a tile tracker except that seriously misplacing my keys or wallet is such an unusual event that it seems like sort of an expensive insurance policy given that (I think?) they all have a finite life with embedded battery.
- svachalek 7y agoThere are some with replaceable batteries now. In practice the batteries only last about 6 months though, in my experience.
- ropiwqefjnpoa 7y agoThat's simple and clever, knowing for sure what cars are worth breaking into. I imagine based on the BD_ADDR you can even surmise what type of device it is.
- saalweachter 7y agoI wonder how hard it is to masquerade your expensive device as a cheap device.
- oliveshell 7y agoProbably much more difficult than just turning off Bluetooth.
- sideshowb 7y agoYes but good idea as you only have to do it once...
- ChuckMcM 7y agoFaraday cage for the trunk I guess.
- toyg 7y agoPretty sure this has been a problem at Disneyland for a long time already. I’m sure I read reports of thieves targeting the original Macbook Air back in the day.
- diego_moita 7y ago> tablets, laptops, cameras, speakers, and phones—basically, most things a thief may want to steal, except for your keys and cold hard cash. (Although if you use a Tile or similar locater dongle on your key chain or in your wallet, then those are discoverable using a Bluetooth scanner, too.) As in most security-related articles there's a lot of speculation and an overall fear-mongering tone here. Laptops don't propagate Bluetooth advertisements while closed and hibernating. The author's friend MacBook was stolen because it was close to the iPad that wasn't hibernating and had its Bluetooth on. Also, almost all cameras don't advertise Bluetooth (it is too slow to transmit video and images), most BtLe speakers are too cheap to interest thieves and most people keep their cellphones with them. Also, Tile trackers are mostly kept in things that people want to keep with them, one of their functionalities is precisely to warn the user when they're left behind. At the end, all the author has is just a theory and a suspicion from a police officer.
- brettnak 7y agoMy bluetooth headphones connect to my macbook pro when come home from work and my laptop is sitting on the kitchen table. My headphones tell me "two devices connected" when I walk in the door. Although it seems like bluetooth _should_ be shut off by devices when not in use, I doubt most devices actually do that.
- diego_moita 7y agoI'd really like to understand this deeper: are you sure your macbook was hibernating, even if it was closed? Are you sure the proximity advertisement came from the laptop? Usually it is the iPhone doing it. I've seen that in airports and malls, more than 90% of the advertisements around are iPhones (Android doesn't do BtLe advertisement) and Windows computers (from the shops and stores). A small minority are beacons and wearables (iWatch, Fitbit, etc.) In libraries sometimes I can see Macbooks, but they all are non-hibernating.
- brettnak 7y agoMy headphones are only paired with my macbook and my android phone. I always am walking with the headphones paired with my phone, so that's one of the two devices. The only other device is my macbook pro, that is often sitting on the kitchen table with it's lid closed, and unused for several days, and yet this happens every day. I obviously don't know what exactly is going on, but if they can "connect" then presumably something about the bluetooth is still functioning.
- bduerst 7y agoHow exactly do they triangulate the Bluetooth signal to an individual car? Yes you can see the Bluetooth radio signal nearby but unless it's the only car in 40 meters you're not going to be able to tell which vehicle it's in. You would need some pretty complicated equipment and experience for these basic "smash and grab" thefts.
- hamandcheese 7y agoMeasure the signal strength near each car. When the signal strength peeks, that's the car you want.
- 2rsf 7y agoBased on the fact that Bluetooth signal is weak and short ranged by design
- KMnO4 7y agoTriangulation is the wrong term for this, but the location of cars and devices is sparse enough that RSSI [1] should suffice. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_signal_strength_indication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_signal_strength_indic...
- bdamm 7y agoFearmongering; this is a legal issue, not a technical one. Does anyone really think they're going to save themselves from thieves by turning off bluetooth? I hope nobody is that naive. This kind of thing also popped up when people realized that thieves could scan and replay early remote commands to unlock cars (and still can for some models!) Was the answer to not use car remotes? Maybe, but for most of us the answer was to make sure your car insurance is up to date and covers theft. Having a car without dents or scratches is attractive. Having visible chargers in your car is attractive. What thieves will find attractive will change over time. Get insurance, do the basic stuff you can to avoid having valuables in your car or advertising yourself as a mark, and don't worry about the rest. When the inevitable happens let your friends take you out for a drink and move on.
- endorphone 7y ago"this is a legal issue, not a technical one" What does this even mean? If you get stabbed while withdrawing money from the skid row ATM at 2am, are your final words "This is a legal issue, not a ғɪɴᴀɴᴄɪᴀʟ ᴏɴᴇ"? Yes, people aren't supposed to break into your car, and they're bad, bad people if they do. For the sorts of people that do there is clearly a cost/benefit analysis, where the cost is the risk. Smashing into a dozen cars just hoping to find something valuable is quite a degree removed from knowing that certain vehicles have valuables, and even what those valuables are. And saying "get insurance" is weak sauce. Yeah, most of us have insurance. All of us, I suspect, never want the hassle and annoyance of claiming on it, or dealing with the BS involved with having one's car broken into.
- nothrabannosir 7y agoI think the argument is to say that to yourself before you’re taking a car’s / laptop’s / phone’s worth of money out of an ATM, get insurance, and give people with a knife what they want before they stab you.
- perl4ever 7y agoWell, but you can't take that much money out of an ATM, in my experience. And if they stab you anyway, after you give them what you have, what do you say? "We had a contract!"
- godshatter 7y agoHas anyone had any luck with faraday bags? I bought one a few years ago, which worked fine for my galaxy s6. I tried it not long ago with my galaxy s9, and I was able to call it from my land line even though it was covered by the faraday bag. Maybe changes in frequencies are to blame? Or maybe I didn't have it as sealed in as well as I thought.
- microcolonel 7y agoPeople have already been lying [0] to the public about vehicle to vehicle communication protocols for a while now, saying that the radio signals will not propagate over long distances. Everyone who knows anything about radios knows that you can make the antenna more sensitive or directional on either side of a transmission. If this stuff ever makes it into vehicles, it will be used by criminals (public and private sector) to track victims.
- lawnchair_larry 7y ago[0]?
- microcolonel 7y agoLost the original link I had earlier today, but this one seems to make the same sorts of claims about the supposed limitations on the range of receiving the V2V signals. https://youtu.be/3z09fCqmILU https://youtu.be/3z09fCqmILU
- nihonium 7y agoThis was inevitable. I suppose Apple's new "Find My Device even if it's offline" mode, which uses bluetooth to emit devices location, will help thieves to find these devices as well.
- waltbosz 7y agoI stayed at a hostel in Montreal 7 years ago and the owners warned me about something like this. They said local thieves used scanners to tell which cars in their car park had electronics inside and were worth breaking into.
- hnburnsy 7y agoHow does Bluetooth leak the device manufacture, make, and model? Is there some sort of Mac?
- 2rsf 7y ago> Bluetooth device has a unique address called BD_ADDR. It contains two parts: company ID which is unique across the world, and device ID which is unique within the products of the company Link: http://progtutorials.tripod.com/Bluetooth_Technology.htm http://progtutorials.tripod.com/Bluetooth_Technology.htm List of Manufacturer IDs: https://www.bluetooth.com/specifications/assigned-numbers/company-identifiers/ https://www.bluetooth.com/specifications/assigned-numbers/co...
- viggity 7y agoOk, so I have an alexa in near every room in my house. My kids lose their fire tablets all the time. It would be awesome if there was an alexa skill saying "where is Johnny's Tablet" and it could tell me which alexa it was closet to based on the bluetooth. Alternatively, I'd prefer it if I could just set off the alarm on the tablet like I can via the "manage devices" section in amazon. But I'm not always at my computer and it is unwieldly as hell. But the bluetooth thing could help me find non-amazon devices like my ipad.