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Thank God I am walking around with the most casual clothe possible and feeling good about it. I can't imagine being part of any "circle" where clothing is looke

Thank God I am walking around with the most casual clothe possible and feeling good about it. I can't imagine being part of any "circle" where clothing is looked upon as a factor of who you truly are as a person. And by that, I mean deeper than personality or character. In the eyes of Others... Who are these Others? What makes us so different?

hvidgaard 7y ago
It shows that people subconsciously believe that better dressed people are more competent.
- me_me_me 7y ago
  Well at least they pretend to have their marbles together to have a clean outfit. I think it not thoroughly conscious choice how we dress, but a mix of how we see ourselves and how we want to be seen by others.
thom 7y ago
While I agree with you, and I too actively avoid people or institutions where these sorts of status games have taken hold, it's important to understand how privileged it is to be able to opt out. Some people in precarious financial or social situations have to navigate this world to live, and understanding these biases is helpful to them. Obviously in the ideal world we would combat these biases or at least their ability to affect other people's wellbeing, but we're quite far from that world at the moment.
- me_me_me 7y ago
  For their woes they get an extra 0 at the end of their payslip. I am not really too concerned with those type of people.
  - thom 7y ago
    I'm talking about people who might be one bad interaction away from unemployment, homelessness or losing their kids.
    - zozbot234 7y ago
      For such people, it's a lot more important to signal familiarity with bourgeois/middle-class values than economic status per se. So it's one instance where one's outfit might actually convey useful info to outsiders. But even then, they don't have to expend huge amounts of money/effort; they just have to not screw it up. If you look at photos from many decades or even, say, a century ago, back when middle-class values were truly common across the socio-economic spectrum, you'll see it was a lot more common for even low-income folks to wear suits or at least semi-casual wear. The point was not to waste resources or signal wealth; everyone knew that these people were quite poor. It was all about values.
- MisterTea 7y ago
  > Some people in precarious financial or social situations have to navigate this world to live, and understanding these biases is helpful to them. I'm reminded of low income people I've known who struggled to save for a suit to wear to a job interview for yet another low paying job at a factory. Privilege indeed.
tiborsaas 7y ago
Clothing signals who you are, period. There is a difference when you wear a suit or a hawaii shirt or a "Fuck Trump" t-shirt. Why don't you think it's a factor of who you are? That thin fabric over your body completes a person. It's one of the no-brainer way for self expression. And people do judge you by your clothes whether they admit or not.
scrdhrt 7y ago
People outside of HN and similar circles usually get impressed with shiny things. "Regular people", most often in business situations, or with business minded people. I run my own businesses and deal with a lot of this sort of situations, but also with some family and acquaintances, normal folks. Like it or not, I've most likely been referred and/or gotten deals through due to my Omega Speedmaster, my Burberry winter coat, hade made expensive leather shoes, etc. That sort of clothes and accessories. Because it makes me look successful in the eyes of Others, and people wants to be friends and partners with other successful people. Shiny things/expensive clothings/etc = Seen as I must be competent to earn that sort of cash. My friends couldn't care less about what I wear, but they understand why I do it.
- jorvi 7y ago
  > Like it or not, I've most likely been referred and/or gotten deals through due to my Omega Speedmaster, my Burberry winter coat, hade made expensive leather shoes I hate to break it to you (or maybe you will consider it a good thing), but no one took the time to notice those minute details about you. Store bought leather shoes that are well-polished look virtually identical to handmade. Unless you hold your watch up to people their faces, few are gonna spot its an Omega, let alone that the make is a Speedmaster (cheers btw, I love the moonwatches). People will spot that you take care of your appearance and try to go for a sophisticated style, but beyond that few will notice the minutia. Hell, I can do you one better: one time when I was at my parents for an extended stay I decided to buzz most of my hair off whilst they were shopping. I had pretty long hair. When they came back I had a conversation for a full minute before my dad suddenly said 'wait.. what the hell did you do with your hair?!'
  - scrdhrt 7y ago
    Thank you for complementing my sales skills ;) I hear you and agree to some extent.
  - crispyambulance 7y ago
    > Store bought leather shoes that are well-polished look virtually identical to handmade. No, they're not. Shoes have a fairly broad spectrum of quality and style. Not everyone notices and not everyone can tell, but it is something that many evaluate. Yes, it's a status signaling mechanism, but it is a part of culture whether you like or not. These kinds of evaluations happen not just with executives in suits but also with youth and their ridiculous athletic shoes. Even gender-wise, women are apt to notice minute details of shoes.
ilovetux 7y ago
I think the point of this study is that it wasnt predicated on the subjects. The results of the study are not that rich people judge people by their clothes, but that people judge people by their clothes.
nabla9 7y ago
It's important to dress the part when you want to achieve something working with others. Put on the mask and try to become that role. It's also important to not get attached to the image that comes back as projection from others. Dressing casually in all situations and all groups is a sign that you are fixated to some self-image, exactly the same way as always being Dapper Dan is. You will self-select yourself into a some group and role in it without knowing it. The role you are most comfortable in is not what you really are. It's just where you are most comfortable. Challenging that may be stressful. There is no role that is 'real you'. What you 'really are', or finding your 'true self' is pop psychology. Being comfortable and constantly adjusting to situations and roles is the best we can do.
- ghaff 7y ago
  Swapping out a button-down shirt and khakis--assuming that's what you tended to wear in a business context a few years ago--for jeans and a more casual shirt to better look the part at a developer conference is every bit the same as putting on a suit for a different context.
- galangalalgol 7y ago
  This is very interesting. I have in the last year or so given up on ties or even tucking in my shirt. For me it there was a point where the discomfort of business attire wasn't worth the fun of playing that role. I liked it, on occasion, but the difference in comfort levels is enough that it distracts me if I am trying to do technical work.
krageon 7y ago
It's nice that you feel good, but that's not what this was about. Namely, how others perceive you.
homonculus1 7y ago
You may not be quite as different as you think. Nerds often "wear" trendy frameworks and laptop stickers while patting themselves on the back for not caring about designer labels. In clothing and couture at least the superficiality is up front.
- shantly 7y ago
  See also: $120+ hoodies, certain hiking & climbing wear. You can spot the tech folks pretty easily and with reasonably high confidence if you know what to look for. There's a uniform, a look, and that's even the ones who don't make it easy by wearing tech company or nerdy legible t-shirts.

hvidgaard 7y ago

It shows that people subconsciously believe that better dressed people are more competent.

me_me_me 7y ago
Well at least they pretend to have their marbles together to have a clean outfit. I think it not thoroughly conscious choice how we dress, but a mix of how we see ourselves and how we want to be seen by others.

thom 7y ago

While I agree with you, and I too actively avoid people or institutions where these sorts of status games have taken hold, it's important to understand how privileged it is to be able to opt out. Some people in precarious financial or social situations have to navigate this world to live, and understanding these biases is helpful to them. Obviously in the ideal world we would combat these biases or at least their ability to affect other people's wellbeing, but we're quite far from that world at the moment.

me_me_me 7y ago
For their woes they get an extra 0 at the end of their payslip. I am not really too concerned with those type of people.
- thom 7y ago
  I'm talking about people who might be one bad interaction away from unemployment, homelessness or losing their kids.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    For such people, it's a lot more important to signal familiarity with bourgeois/middle-class values than economic status per se. So it's one instance where one's outfit might actually convey useful info to outsiders. But even then, they don't have to expend huge amounts of money/effort; they just have to not screw it up. If you look at photos from many decades or even, say, a century ago, back when middle-class values were truly common across the socio-economic spectrum, you'll see it was a lot more common for even low-income folks to wear suits or at least semi-casual wear. The point was not to waste resources or signal wealth; everyone knew that these people were quite poor. It was all about values.
MisterTea 7y ago
> Some people in precarious financial or social situations have to navigate this world to live, and understanding these biases is helpful to them. I'm reminded of low income people I've known who struggled to save for a suit to wear to a job interview for yet another low paying job at a factory. Privilege indeed.

tiborsaas 7y ago

Clothing signals who you are, period. There is a difference when you wear a suit or a hawaii shirt or a "Fuck Trump" t-shirt. Why don't you think it's a factor of who you are? That thin fabric over your body completes a person. It's one of the no-brainer way for self expression. And people do judge you by your clothes whether they admit or not.

scrdhrt 7y ago

People outside of HN and similar circles usually get impressed with shiny things. "Regular people", most often in business situations, or with business minded people. I run my own businesses and deal with a lot of this sort of situations, but also with some family and acquaintances, normal folks. Like it or not, I've most likely been referred and/or gotten deals through due to my Omega Speedmaster, my Burberry winter coat, hade made expensive leather shoes, etc. That sort of clothes and accessories. Because it makes me look successful in the eyes of Others, and people wants to be friends and partners with other successful people. Shiny things/expensive clothings/etc = Seen as I must be competent to earn that sort of cash. My friends couldn't care less about what I wear, but they understand why I do it.

jorvi 7y ago
> Like it or not, I've most likely been referred and/or gotten deals through due to my Omega Speedmaster, my Burberry winter coat, hade made expensive leather shoes I hate to break it to you (or maybe you will consider it a good thing), but no one took the time to notice those minute details about you. Store bought leather shoes that are well-polished look virtually identical to handmade. Unless you hold your watch up to people their faces, few are gonna spot its an Omega, let alone that the make is a Speedmaster (cheers btw, I love the moonwatches). People will spot that you take care of your appearance and try to go for a sophisticated style, but beyond that few will notice the minutia. Hell, I can do you one better: one time when I was at my parents for an extended stay I decided to buzz most of my hair off whilst they were shopping. I had pretty long hair. When they came back I had a conversation for a full minute before my dad suddenly said 'wait.. what the hell did you do with your hair?!'
- scrdhrt 7y ago
  Thank you for complementing my sales skills ;) I hear you and agree to some extent.
- crispyambulance 7y ago
  > Store bought leather shoes that are well-polished look virtually identical to handmade. No, they're not. Shoes have a fairly broad spectrum of quality and style. Not everyone notices and not everyone can tell, but it is something that many evaluate. Yes, it's a status signaling mechanism, but it is a part of culture whether you like or not. These kinds of evaluations happen not just with executives in suits but also with youth and their ridiculous athletic shoes. Even gender-wise, women are apt to notice minute details of shoes.

ilovetux 7y ago

I think the point of this study is that it wasnt predicated on the subjects. The results of the study are not that rich people judge people by their clothes, but that people judge people by their clothes.

nabla9 7y ago

It's important to dress the part when you want to achieve something working with others. Put on the mask and try to become that role. It's also important to not get attached to the image that comes back as projection from others. Dressing casually in all situations and all groups is a sign that you are fixated to some self-image, exactly the same way as always being Dapper Dan is. You will self-select yourself into a some group and role in it without knowing it. The role you are most comfortable in is not what you really are. It's just where you are most comfortable. Challenging that may be stressful. There is no role that is 'real you'. What you 'really are', or finding your 'true self' is pop psychology. Being comfortable and constantly adjusting to situations and roles is the best we can do.

ghaff 7y ago
Swapping out a button-down shirt and khakis--assuming that's what you tended to wear in a business context a few years ago--for jeans and a more casual shirt to better look the part at a developer conference is every bit the same as putting on a suit for a different context.
galangalalgol 7y ago
This is very interesting. I have in the last year or so given up on ties or even tucking in my shirt. For me it there was a point where the discomfort of business attire wasn't worth the fun of playing that role. I liked it, on occasion, but the difference in comfort levels is enough that it distracts me if I am trying to do technical work.

krageon 7y ago

It's nice that you feel good, but that's not what this was about. Namely, how others perceive you.

homonculus1 7y ago

You may not be quite as different as you think. Nerds often "wear" trendy frameworks and laptop stickers while patting themselves on the back for not caring about designer labels. In clothing and couture at least the superficiality is up front.

shantly 7y ago
See also: $120+ hoodies, certain hiking & climbing wear. You can spot the tech folks pretty easily and with reasonably high confidence if you know what to look for. There's a uniform, a look, and that's even the ones who don't make it easy by wearing tech company or nerdy legible t-shirts.