5 ms·

> Ouch. What do you get when you mix healthcare and a profit-driven capitalist mentality where no one in the industry (the corporations, not talking about docto

by sysbin 7y ago

> Ouch. What do you get when you mix healthcare and a profit-driven capitalist mentality where no one in the industry (the corporations, not talking about doctors) actually cares about saving lives? Crap like this. I just want to share this opinion from what you wrote. The mentality that "people go into certain careers for moral reasons" needs to go out of fashion. Even in non-capitalist societies people should never consider the belief that people enter careers for moral reasons as true. The reason is that the careers/fields most important for the health of society, need to function correctly in any case and by a system that's designed for even if we're all sociopaths.

randomsearch 7y ago
I get your point, but is it always possible? Sometimes you have to trust people and take the downside. For example, I think academia worked better when researchers were allowed to just go on with it, knowing that a certain percentage wouldn’t work very hard or do things that weren’t very useful.
ssivark 7y ago
> Even in non-capitalist societies people should never consider the belief that people enter careers for moral reasons as true. [...] The reason is that the careers/fields most important for the health of society, need to function correctly in any case and by a system that's designed for even if we're all sociopaths. Nope; such a cynical approach that doesn't lead to healthy outcomes. What you're saying flies in the face of millenia of accumulated wisdom on human development. It is definitely a subject with tons of nuance, but in essence humans are malleable, and do respond to expectations/environment. To quote Geothe (as popularly paraphrased by Victor Frankl): “If you treat an individual as he is, he will remain how he is. But if you treat him as if he were what he ought to be and could be, he will become what he ought to be and could be.” For those seeking a broader and more holistic outlook on the moral dimension of people's activity, especially work, I recommend Barry Schwartz's talks/writings eg: talks on "The way we think about work is broken", "Doing the right thing for the right reason", and on practical wisdom available on YouTube.
- krageon 7y ago
  The position that there even is a coherent "millennia of accumulated wisdom on human development" is at best a spurious one. The next position would be "can we easily draw from it" - which is unlikely, even given ready access to all of the surviving literature (such as it is).
ptah 7y ago
The amount of sacrifice and work required to succeed at becoming a surgeon requires a deep conviction and values beyond just profit
- Cougher 7y ago
  Sure, but those values are not always the noble idea of wanting to help people. There are a lot of egotistical social misfits with temper problems who are operating on us. Some of them are very good at it. Some of them are less good.

by sysbin 7y ago

randomsearch 7y ago

I get your point, but is it always possible? Sometimes you have to trust people and take the downside. For example, I think academia worked better when researchers were allowed to just go on with it, knowing that a certain percentage wouldn’t work very hard or do things that weren’t very useful.

ssivark 7y ago

> Even in non-capitalist societies people should never consider the belief that people enter careers for moral reasons as true. [...] The reason is that the careers/fields most important for the health of society, need to function correctly in any case and by a system that's designed for even if we're all sociopaths. Nope; such a cynical approach that doesn't lead to healthy outcomes. What you're saying flies in the face of millenia of accumulated wisdom on human development. It is definitely a subject with tons of nuance, but in essence humans are malleable, and do respond to expectations/environment. To quote Geothe (as popularly paraphrased by Victor Frankl): “If you treat an individual as he is, he will remain how he is. But if you treat him as if he were what he ought to be and could be, he will become what he ought to be and could be.” For those seeking a broader and more holistic outlook on the moral dimension of people's activity, especially work, I recommend Barry Schwartz's talks/writings eg: talks on "The way we think about work is broken", "Doing the right thing for the right reason", and on practical wisdom available on YouTube.

krageon 7y ago
The position that there even is a coherent "millennia of accumulated wisdom on human development" is at best a spurious one. The next position would be "can we easily draw from it" - which is unlikely, even given ready access to all of the surviving literature (such as it is).

ptah 7y ago

The amount of sacrifice and work required to succeed at becoming a surgeon requires a deep conviction and values beyond just profit

Cougher 7y ago
Sure, but those values are not always the noble idea of wanting to help people. There are a lot of egotistical social misfits with temper problems who are operating on us. Some of them are very good at it. Some of them are less good.