4 ms·

> if your diet is crap, your exercise is nonexistent, you get no sleep, no nootropic concoction is going to make up for that. Are you saying this as a statemen

> if your diet is crap, your exercise is nonexistent, you get no sleep, no nootropic concoction is going to make up for that. Are you saying this as a statement of fact or more like an advice? Because, as a statement of fact, it is very probably false. Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent).

lm28469 7y ago
Coke will make up for not sleeping, not sure how you'll do in 10 years though. There is absolutely no way to make up for lack of sleep and shitty diet in the long run.
- FeepingCreature 7y ago
  I'm not sure if we know enough about diet and sleep to assert this with confidence.
  - kharak 7y ago
    I believe we do. For example, the book "Why we sleep" goes into the health and performance costs of not enough sleep. And even one hour of lost sleep is already significant.
    - balfirevic 7y ago
      That book is perhaps not the best example: https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/ https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/
    - copperx 7y ago
      Even if the author's arguments are true, the book doesn't even try to explain the effects of oversleeping. We know it's associated with higher mortality risk, just like insufficient sleep. But the author conveniently ignores this fact and advises everybody to sleep for at least 8 hours.
  - GuB-42 7y ago
    We don't really know about the fine details of diet, such as the importance of meat, the kinds of sugars and fats that are good for you, etc... However, the are some obvious things we know for sure. Eat too little and you starve, eat too much and you become obese, don't get vitamin C and you get scurvy, etc... Same thing about sleep. No sleep = you die. Starting from there, it is obvious that extreme sleep deprivation is bad for you. It is the details that are less certain.
bluntfang 7y ago
>Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent). imo and ime, adhd meds like amphetamine derivatives will NOT make up for these things, but it will allow you to push through not having them them for a limited time. These things will eventually catch up to you in a few weeks.
- IAmEveryone 7y ago
  Tolerance does (empirically) not develop for ritalin/amphetamine used at appropriate dosages for ADHD, nor do users incur "sleep debt" or anything similar. This model of people "crashing after a few weeks" and similar are mostly driven by people's idea of how a just world should operate, not by actual data--as your use of the morality-laden phrase "catch up" nicely demonstrates. While some drugs exhibit such behaviour (L-DOPA, caffeine), far more do not (insulin, Aspirin). Some even become more potent with regular use (glucocorticoids, unfortunately). Many are somewhere in-between. Alcohol is a pretty good example to calibrate your intuitions: it's probably at the "yes tolerance!" end of the scale. If you have ever gone to college you will have noticed your alcohol sensitivity decreasing. But this effect has an even more noticeable plateau, and it's a far cry from no longer being able to get drunk. The ADHD reaction to amphetamines is somewhat atypical anyway: it does not produce agitation as it does for "normal" people or at higher doses, but rather calmness/zen/serenity. IIRC sleep duration and quality tend to increase, for example. Even amphetamine abuse is unlikely to actually kill you[0], nor will you accumulate <negative mojo x>. Just look at the average life expectancy on Wall Street. It does, however, significant alter behaviour: it provokes a certain OCD-like enjoyment of stressful but repetitive work (fighter pilot, stockbroker, Elton John) while somewhat ruining your ability to function socially or cope with varied tasks. [0]: Speed will kill you the first or second time you take if you are unlucky enough to have a pre-existing heart condition. Cocaine will kill you with constant probability over time.
  - vangelis 7y ago
    We're talking about these things as a replacement for rather than in addition to a healthy diet and sleep schedule.
oarabbus_ 7y ago
>Because, as a statement of fact, it is very probably false. Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent). This is provably false. Amphetamines reduce the appetite; they in no way "make up" for crappy diet. Amphetamines increase blood pressure and heart rate; while this keeps one skinny when combined with the above point, it does not strengthen the cardiovascular system. It doesn't "make up" for no exercise. Finally the comorbidity associated to bad/no sleep is exacerbated by amphetamine usage. I am impressed at how every point you made is false.
- balfirevic 7y ago
  Only impressive thing here is that you managed to miss the context of the thread. We are talking about using "nootropics to help increase mental acuity and focus". In that sense, amphetamines will make up for lessened mental performance that you may have due to bad diet or lack of exercise.
  - oarabbus_ 7y ago
    Sounds like an opinion claim. There are plenty of studies of the effects of amphetamines on sleep-deprived individuals (it does help with alertness and mental acuity, provided the deprivation is not severe, and even then only in the short term). Can you link articles proving your claims about amphetamines clearing up reduced mental performance specifically due to bad diet or lack of exercise?
    - balfirevic 7y ago
      If you are actually interested, there is lot of information here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo... (with sources) The summary is that Adderall works well to increase focus for basically everyone.
      - oarabbus_ 7y ago

lm28469 7y ago

Coke will make up for not sleeping, not sure how you'll do in 10 years though. There is absolutely no way to make up for lack of sleep and shitty diet in the long run.

FeepingCreature 7y ago
I'm not sure if we know enough about diet and sleep to assert this with confidence.
- kharak 7y ago
  I believe we do. For example, the book "Why we sleep" goes into the health and performance costs of not enough sleep. And even one hour of lost sleep is already significant.
  - balfirevic 7y ago
    That book is perhaps not the best example: https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/ https://guzey.com/books/why-we-sleep/
  - copperx 7y ago
    Even if the author's arguments are true, the book doesn't even try to explain the effects of oversleeping. We know it's associated with higher mortality risk, just like insufficient sleep. But the author conveniently ignores this fact and advises everybody to sleep for at least 8 hours.
- GuB-42 7y ago
  We don't really know about the fine details of diet, such as the importance of meat, the kinds of sugars and fats that are good for you, etc... However, the are some obvious things we know for sure. Eat too little and you starve, eat too much and you become obese, don't get vitamin C and you get scurvy, etc... Same thing about sleep. No sleep = you die. Starting from there, it is obvious that extreme sleep deprivation is bad for you. It is the details that are less certain.

bluntfang 7y ago

>Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent). imo and ime, adhd meds like amphetamine derivatives will NOT make up for these things, but it will allow you to push through not having them them for a limited time. These things will eventually catch up to you in a few weeks.

IAmEveryone 7y ago
Tolerance does (empirically) not develop for ritalin/amphetamine used at appropriate dosages for ADHD, nor do users incur "sleep debt" or anything similar. This model of people "crashing after a few weeks" and similar are mostly driven by people's idea of how a just world should operate, not by actual data--as your use of the morality-laden phrase "catch up" nicely demonstrates. While some drugs exhibit such behaviour (L-DOPA, caffeine), far more do not (insulin, Aspirin). Some even become more potent with regular use (glucocorticoids, unfortunately). Many are somewhere in-between. Alcohol is a pretty good example to calibrate your intuitions: it's probably at the "yes tolerance!" end of the scale. If you have ever gone to college you will have noticed your alcohol sensitivity decreasing. But this effect has an even more noticeable plateau, and it's a far cry from no longer being able to get drunk. The ADHD reaction to amphetamines is somewhat atypical anyway: it does not produce agitation as it does for "normal" people or at higher doses, but rather calmness/zen/serenity. IIRC sleep duration and quality tend to increase, for example. Even amphetamine abuse is unlikely to actually kill you[0], nor will you accumulate <negative mojo x>. Just look at the average life expectancy on Wall Street. It does, however, significant alter behaviour: it provokes a certain OCD-like enjoyment of stressful but repetitive work (fighter pilot, stockbroker, Elton John) while somewhat ruining your ability to function socially or cope with varied tasks. [0]: Speed will kill you the first or second time you take if you are unlucky enough to have a pre-existing heart condition. Cocaine will kill you with constant probability over time.
- vangelis 7y ago
  We're talking about these things as a replacement for rather than in addition to a healthy diet and sleep schedule.

oarabbus_ 7y ago

>Because, as a statement of fact, it is very probably false. Anti-ADHD medication will make up (and then some) for crappy diet, no exercise and bad sleep (this one probably only to a certain extent). This is provably false. Amphetamines reduce the appetite; they in no way "make up" for crappy diet. Amphetamines increase blood pressure and heart rate; while this keeps one skinny when combined with the above point, it does not strengthen the cardiovascular system. It doesn't "make up" for no exercise. Finally the comorbidity associated to bad/no sleep is exacerbated by amphetamine usage. I am impressed at how every point you made is false.

balfirevic 7y ago
Only impressive thing here is that you managed to miss the context of the thread. We are talking about using "nootropics to help increase mental acuity and focus". In that sense, amphetamines will make up for lessened mental performance that you may have due to bad diet or lack of exercise.
- oarabbus_ 7y ago
  Sounds like an opinion claim. There are plenty of studies of the effects of amphetamines on sleep-deprived individuals (it does help with alertness and mental acuity, provided the deprivation is not severe, and even then only in the short term). Can you link articles proving your claims about amphetamines clearing up reduced mental performance specifically due to bad diet or lack of exercise?
  - balfirevic 7y ago
    If you are actually interested, there is lot of information here: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo... (with sources) The summary is that Adderall works well to increase focus for basically everyone.
    - oarabbus_ 7y ago