4 ms·

Out of interest, what do you think the percentage of HackerNews users would have the the finances to buy a private jet?

FBISurveillance 7y ago
Assuming you mean buy and maintain, same as the percentage of world population that have the finances to buy a private jet.
- throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
  I think less than average. HN would, in my best guess, be much wealthier than average, but contain a smaller proportion of the super wealth required to (reasonable) purchase a private jet
- lucideer 7y ago
  I would say the percentage on HN is far far higher. The majority of HN are from the US/the anglosphere/wealthy western nations. A large percentage of HN are in a profession that pays above average (engineering). A smaller but I guess not insignificant percentage are investors. HN is in no way representative of the general population.
  - snowwrestler 7y ago
    I'm sure there are far fewer people on HN at the lower end of the global wealth scale, than in the global population. But it takes a lot of money to buy a jet. I would not be too sure that the very top of the global wealth scale is well-represented here, either. Dicking around on a web forum seems like a waste of time for someone with the means to live the life they want.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - cmdshiftf4 7y ago
    >I would say the percentage on HN is far far higher. >A large percentage of HN are in a profession that pays above average (engineering) Not related. Even if you're a director at Google pulling 1m a year in, you're not buying a private jet. Or, you're not unless you're reckless. The reason HN would have a far higher audience of people who own or have access to private jets is because a bunch of tech entrepreneurs who've really made it, such as the Collisons and Drew Houston, have come through here on their ascension and some of whom are still around.
- samatman 7y ago
  ~46% of the world lives on $5.50 a day or less[0]. How many of them do you think browse Hacker News? [0]: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/nearly-half-the-world-lives-on-less-than-550-a-day https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/n...
josephpmay 7y ago
Probably less than 1%, if you mean actually buy vs. fractionally own.
sokoloff 7y ago
You can buy an airworthy legacy Citation 500/501 for $200K with a few hundred hours left on the turbines. It’s not the purchase price that gets you; it’s the operating costs. Fuel burns of 150+ gallons per hour at only 350mph cruise and regular five/low-six figure inspection/repair bills are what really puts a crimp in the plans.
- danyim 7y ago
  Just curious—do you have an estimate for the actual operating costs? What does jet fuel go for and how much high are maintenance costs?
  - hwbehrens 7y ago
    On average, it looks like it's about μ=$3,655.91 per flight hour (σ=$2,036.95), with a high correlation with maximum passengers. Cost per hour, per passenger is μ=$320.28, σ=$67.45, assuming the plane is full. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/november/16/hourly-operating-costs-of-45-jets-compared https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/november/1...
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    Figure $50K year in year out for maint and an occasional $100K bad surprise. $25K for insurance and training. $25K for rural hangar and some multiple of that for big city hangar. Figure $2/mile for fuel on a long trip, $3/mi on a shorter hop. Jet-A ranges from $2.75/gal to $5/gal typically (with some outlier airports being higher). Fuel is heavy and hurts performance, so it’s rare to tanker significant quantities of “cheap” fuel. Those figures are roughly right for a legacy Citation with JT15s. Bigger jets might be more. Newer jets might be more fuel efficient (and correspondingly more expensive to buy). A legacy Citation is a 50-150 hour/yr airplane. Fly it much more than that and you'd be better off in a newer Citation with the FJ44s (more expensive engines, much better fuel specifics).
  - heelix 7y ago
    One of my buddies transitioned from a turboprop to a lear. He would burn more fuel on the ground than we would would in a piston powered 182 for the entire trip. I think his burn rate was near 75gal/hour in the Cheyenne compared to our 12gal/hour or so. Figure $400/hour in fuel depending on what jet-a cost these days. Mind you, he went much faster/higher than what our bug smasher can do... you pay for that speed in fuel. For us, the next jump up to an old piston that could do 200kts/hour would likely burn 14-18gal/hour with a single engine. Looking at our FBO here, Jet-A is ~$5.80/gal and 100LL is ~$5.50/gal
rwmj 7y ago
The chance of me buying (or even flying on) a private jet is very small indeed. I still found the article a good bit of well-researched journalism and very interesting.

Assuming you mean buy and maintain, same as the percentage of world population that have the finances to buy a private jet.

throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
I think less than average. HN would, in my best guess, be much wealthier than average, but contain a smaller proportion of the super wealth required to (reasonable) purchase a private jet
lucideer 7y ago
I would say the percentage on HN is far far higher. The majority of HN are from the US/the anglosphere/wealthy western nations. A large percentage of HN are in a profession that pays above average (engineering). A smaller but I guess not insignificant percentage are investors. HN is in no way representative of the general population.
- snowwrestler 7y ago
  I'm sure there are far fewer people on HN at the lower end of the global wealth scale, than in the global population. But it takes a lot of money to buy a jet. I would not be too sure that the very top of the global wealth scale is well-represented here, either. Dicking around on a web forum seems like a waste of time for someone with the means to live the life they want.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cmdshiftf4 7y ago
  >I would say the percentage on HN is far far higher. >A large percentage of HN are in a profession that pays above average (engineering) Not related. Even if you're a director at Google pulling 1m a year in, you're not buying a private jet. Or, you're not unless you're reckless. The reason HN would have a far higher audience of people who own or have access to private jets is because a bunch of tech entrepreneurs who've really made it, such as the Collisons and Drew Houston, have come through here on their ascension and some of whom are still around.
samatman 7y ago
~46% of the world lives on $5.50 a day or less[0]. How many of them do you think browse Hacker News? [0]: https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/nearly-half-the-world-lives-on-less-than-550-a-day https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2018/10/17/n...

josephpmay 7y ago

Probably less than 1%, if you mean actually buy vs. fractionally own.

sokoloff 7y ago

You can buy an airworthy legacy Citation 500/501 for $200K with a few hundred hours left on the turbines. It’s not the purchase price that gets you; it’s the operating costs. Fuel burns of 150+ gallons per hour at only 350mph cruise and regular five/low-six figure inspection/repair bills are what really puts a crimp in the plans.

danyim 7y ago
Just curious—do you have an estimate for the actual operating costs? What does jet fuel go for and how much high are maintenance costs?
- hwbehrens 7y ago
  On average, it looks like it's about μ=$3,655.91 per flight hour (σ=$2,036.95), with a high correlation with maximum passengers. Cost per hour, per passenger is μ=$320.28, σ=$67.45, assuming the plane is full. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/november/16/hourly-operating-costs-of-45-jets-compared https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2015/november/1...
- sokoloff 7y ago
  Figure $50K year in year out for maint and an occasional $100K bad surprise. $25K for insurance and training. $25K for rural hangar and some multiple of that for big city hangar. Figure $2/mile for fuel on a long trip, $3/mi on a shorter hop. Jet-A ranges from $2.75/gal to $5/gal typically (with some outlier airports being higher). Fuel is heavy and hurts performance, so it’s rare to tanker significant quantities of “cheap” fuel. Those figures are roughly right for a legacy Citation with JT15s. Bigger jets might be more. Newer jets might be more fuel efficient (and correspondingly more expensive to buy). A legacy Citation is a 50-150 hour/yr airplane. Fly it much more than that and you'd be better off in a newer Citation with the FJ44s (more expensive engines, much better fuel specifics).
- heelix 7y ago
  One of my buddies transitioned from a turboprop to a lear. He would burn more fuel on the ground than we would would in a piston powered 182 for the entire trip. I think his burn rate was near 75gal/hour in the Cheyenne compared to our 12gal/hour or so. Figure $400/hour in fuel depending on what jet-a cost these days. Mind you, he went much faster/higher than what our bug smasher can do... you pay for that speed in fuel. For us, the next jump up to an old piston that could do 200kts/hour would likely burn 14-18gal/hour with a single engine. Looking at our FBO here, Jet-A is ~$5.80/gal and 100LL is ~$5.50/gal

rwmj 7y ago

The chance of me buying (or even flying on) a private jet is very small indeed. I still found the article a good bit of well-researched journalism and very interesting.