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Sometimes you need a martyr to make people realize the fuckery happening around them. For example, from Occupied France during WWII... On 5 December 1940, Bon

Sometimes you need a martyr to make people realize the fuckery happening around them. For example, from Occupied France during WWII... On 5 December 1940, Bonsergent was convicted by a German military court of insulting the Wehrmacht as he insisted on taking full responsibility, saying he wanted to show the French what sort of people the Germans were and he was shot on 23 December 1940.[50] The execution of Bonsergent, a man guilty only of being a witness to an incident that was in itself only very trivial brought home to many of the French the precise nature of the "New Order in Europe". wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance

Waterluvian 7y ago
The incredible bravery, to me, comes from the fact that you can't know for sure your sacrifice will ultimately mean anything or be noticed by anyone.
- GVRV 7y ago
  This is what is so interesting about it to me. If I were Snowden, I would have been suicidal or at least extremely depressed seeing how I basically threw away my life without the public caring at all (were there any long term changes? Does the average global citizen care about government spying? Were the responsible government officials brought to justice?). If no one cares about your sacrifice, then what's the point of making the sacrifice in the first place? I know this is a very negative point of view looking at the world, but it's something I've been spending a lot of time thinking about as I grow up (maybe it's a normal thing you realise when you're starting to change into a realist from an idealist as you mature).
  - anovikov 7y ago
    At the very least, privacy practices have evolved dramatically since Snowden affair. Everyone uses end-to-end encryption now, a website without https is now eyebrows-raising. So while government spying probably didn't reduce, there is a lot less they can do now.
    - GVRV 7y ago
      I agree there have been improvements in the right direction, but if you were in Snowden's shoes, would you be satisfied with these improvements compared to the sacrifices you've made and continue to make? Why did he have to throw away a normal, comfortable life with good pay for constant anxiety and uncertainty to expose something to the citizens of the world - when the citizens of the world don't even want to stop watching Netflix to do something about this issue?
      - anovikov 7y ago
        He created as much of a scandal as an ordinary person possibly can make. People definitely noticed.
  - prirun 7y ago
    To me, an important aspect of Snowden's revelations was to confirm that many "conspiracy theories" were actually fact. To understand events, I like to examine different groups' motivations. What would be in their interest? For government, wanting to maintain control and power over its citizens, especially citizens with power, money, and influence, monitoring all conversations is obviously in their interest. Hiding this monitoring is also in their interest. So of course, they do both. It seems very obvious, but without Snowden's evidence, it's very easy to label this as "tin foil hat" conspiracy theory: "Of course the government is not monitoring everyone's phone calls. They could never keep that a secret for so long!" But as we have found out via Snowden, they actually can keep secrets for a very long time. So an important aspect of his disclosure to me is to make it less easy to label something as conspiracy theory or being a paranoid nut job, just because there is no evidence to support a "wild" claim - yet.

Waterluvian 7y ago

The incredible bravery, to me, comes from the fact that you can't know for sure your sacrifice will ultimately mean anything or be noticed by anyone.

GVRV 7y ago
This is what is so interesting about it to me. If I were Snowden, I would have been suicidal or at least extremely depressed seeing how I basically threw away my life without the public caring at all (were there any long term changes? Does the average global citizen care about government spying? Were the responsible government officials brought to justice?). If no one cares about your sacrifice, then what's the point of making the sacrifice in the first place? I know this is a very negative point of view looking at the world, but it's something I've been spending a lot of time thinking about as I grow up (maybe it's a normal thing you realise when you're starting to change into a realist from an idealist as you mature).
- anovikov 7y ago
  At the very least, privacy practices have evolved dramatically since Snowden affair. Everyone uses end-to-end encryption now, a website without https is now eyebrows-raising. So while government spying probably didn't reduce, there is a lot less they can do now.
  - GVRV 7y ago
    I agree there have been improvements in the right direction, but if you were in Snowden's shoes, would you be satisfied with these improvements compared to the sacrifices you've made and continue to make? Why did he have to throw away a normal, comfortable life with good pay for constant anxiety and uncertainty to expose something to the citizens of the world - when the citizens of the world don't even want to stop watching Netflix to do something about this issue?
    - anovikov 7y ago
      He created as much of a scandal as an ordinary person possibly can make. People definitely noticed.
- prirun 7y ago
  To me, an important aspect of Snowden's revelations was to confirm that many "conspiracy theories" were actually fact. To understand events, I like to examine different groups' motivations. What would be in their interest? For government, wanting to maintain control and power over its citizens, especially citizens with power, money, and influence, monitoring all conversations is obviously in their interest. Hiding this monitoring is also in their interest. So of course, they do both. It seems very obvious, but without Snowden's evidence, it's very easy to label this as "tin foil hat" conspiracy theory: "Of course the government is not monitoring everyone's phone calls. They could never keep that a secret for so long!" But as we have found out via Snowden, they actually can keep secrets for a very long time. So an important aspect of his disclosure to me is to make it less easy to label something as conspiracy theory or being a paranoid nut job, just because there is no evidence to support a "wild" claim - yet.