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Monogamy is still one of the biggest societal pressures that people struggle to escape, at the expense of their own happiness and emotional well being. And in s

by xwdv 7y ago

Monogamy is still one of the biggest societal pressures that people struggle to escape, at the expense of their own happiness and emotional well being. And in some cases there are real punitive consequences for not conforming to it. You should not force exclusivity wherever it does not occur naturally. Not everyone can be 100% fulfilled from one relationship.

Twinklebreeze 7y ago
I agree. I'm of the opinion that monogamy is only harmful when it is considered the default. People/couples should put thought into this aspect of their relationship, and choose what is right for them. Even if that means monogamy.
- xwdv 7y ago
  The irony is that modern society has made great strides to promote relationships between all combinations of genders of individuals... but any suggestion of non-monogamy is still struck down with shame or castigation almost reflexively, with little to no thought. It’s getting better though.
  - r00fus 7y ago
    There is no irony other than the fact that you think it's ironic. Monogamy is the default for same-sex couples as well. Orthogonal issue. The issue with non-monogamy is that a pairing (2 people) is the smallest working group, and that's what the game theory of dating proves to be most durable and successful. A 3-person working group requires at least 3x more relationship work, and a 4-person pairing requires 6x as much.
    - xwdv 7y ago
      People have partners on the side very successfully until they are caught, and arguably those side relationships would be more successful if they did not have to keep them a secret and their other partners agreed to the open nature of the relationship.
    - Twinklebreeze 7y ago
      Polyamory doesn't have to be a three or four way free for all. One person could have two independent partners. Some partners will come and go, while others stay. It is more work, but it doesn't have to be as bad as you make it out to be.
    - ngngngng 7y ago
      It is ironic. I have no data on this, but I would guess that having sex with the same gender is far less common than having multiple sexual partners, so why have we worked so hard to normalize and legalize same gender relationships while giving no thought to polygamous relationships?
      - empthought 7y ago
        The legal frameworks have to do with property transfer and responsibility for raising children, both of which are much more complicated in relationships with more than two partners.
    - damnyou 7y ago
      That relationship work you're talking about has some side effects that might be desirable, such as making you a better person.
hacknat 7y ago
I do think that monogamy should be considered "ideal" in some sense (especially for raising children), but I do think we need to understand that not everyone's upbringing, which forms their (surprise, surprise) attachment style, will allow this to be a healthy constraint. The statistics, obviously, bear out that a large number of, even happy, people cannot hack it under the constraints of monogamy. Either monogamy needs to be better defined or we need to drop it as a societal pressure/constraint on relationships. Probably a little bit of both is needed.
- EliRivers 7y ago
  I do think that monogamy should be considered "ideal" in some sense (especially for raising children) Naively, I'd wonder if children could be raised better by a group of adults rather than a couple.
  - memling 7y ago
    aren't all children raised by groups?
  - hacknat 7y ago
    Certainly a couple, by themselves, is the 2nd worst choice for raising a child other than a single parent, by themselves. Children need to be raised by lots of caring adults. However monogamy does provide a sort of back-stop safety protection against adults prioritizing their own relationships with each-other over their relationships with their children (who are naturally less interesting and invigorating relationship partners). Non-monogamous raising of children probably has its own advantages and dangers, the point is to make sure that children are always protected and nurtured to the best of their caregivers' ability. I worry about diffusing responsibility for raising children too much, at the expense of them developing a secure attachment. However, as long as all the adults in a child's life are prioritizing that child developing a "secure" attachment style, I could give a shit who is fucking who. And yes, this is very much my business, because how you raise your children dictates what kind of society my children will live in, so please raise them right.
jimbokun 7y ago
No one is forcing you to get married.
- xwdv 7y ago
  Force? No. Pressured? Yes. Pressured into being a plain vanilla monogamous couple? Oh yes. Edit: Also, I’ve taken huge hits to my karma in this thread for what I assume people find to be unpopular opinions. I hope some day these people find themselves on the wrong side of history, just like those who worked hard to try to squelch LGBTQ rights.

by xwdv 7y ago

Twinklebreeze 7y ago

I agree. I'm of the opinion that monogamy is only harmful when it is considered the default. People/couples should put thought into this aspect of their relationship, and choose what is right for them. Even if that means monogamy.

xwdv 7y ago
The irony is that modern society has made great strides to promote relationships between all combinations of genders of individuals... but any suggestion of non-monogamy is still struck down with shame or castigation almost reflexively, with little to no thought. It’s getting better though.
- r00fus 7y ago
  There is no irony other than the fact that you think it's ironic. Monogamy is the default for same-sex couples as well. Orthogonal issue. The issue with non-monogamy is that a pairing (2 people) is the smallest working group, and that's what the game theory of dating proves to be most durable and successful. A 3-person working group requires at least 3x more relationship work, and a 4-person pairing requires 6x as much.
  - xwdv 7y ago
    People have partners on the side very successfully until they are caught, and arguably those side relationships would be more successful if they did not have to keep them a secret and their other partners agreed to the open nature of the relationship.
  - Twinklebreeze 7y ago
    Polyamory doesn't have to be a three or four way free for all. One person could have two independent partners. Some partners will come and go, while others stay. It is more work, but it doesn't have to be as bad as you make it out to be.
  - ngngngng 7y ago
    It is ironic. I have no data on this, but I would guess that having sex with the same gender is far less common than having multiple sexual partners, so why have we worked so hard to normalize and legalize same gender relationships while giving no thought to polygamous relationships?
    - empthought 7y ago
      The legal frameworks have to do with property transfer and responsibility for raising children, both of which are much more complicated in relationships with more than two partners.
  - damnyou 7y ago
    That relationship work you're talking about has some side effects that might be desirable, such as making you a better person.

hacknat 7y ago

I do think that monogamy should be considered "ideal" in some sense (especially for raising children), but I do think we need to understand that not everyone's upbringing, which forms their (surprise, surprise) attachment style, will allow this to be a healthy constraint. The statistics, obviously, bear out that a large number of, even happy, people cannot hack it under the constraints of monogamy. Either monogamy needs to be better defined or we need to drop it as a societal pressure/constraint on relationships. Probably a little bit of both is needed.

EliRivers 7y ago
I do think that monogamy should be considered "ideal" in some sense (especially for raising children) Naively, I'd wonder if children could be raised better by a group of adults rather than a couple.
- memling 7y ago
  aren't all children raised by groups?
- hacknat 7y ago
  Certainly a couple, by themselves, is the 2nd worst choice for raising a child other than a single parent, by themselves. Children need to be raised by lots of caring adults. However monogamy does provide a sort of back-stop safety protection against adults prioritizing their own relationships with each-other over their relationships with their children (who are naturally less interesting and invigorating relationship partners). Non-monogamous raising of children probably has its own advantages and dangers, the point is to make sure that children are always protected and nurtured to the best of their caregivers' ability. I worry about diffusing responsibility for raising children too much, at the expense of them developing a secure attachment. However, as long as all the adults in a child's life are prioritizing that child developing a "secure" attachment style, I could give a shit who is fucking who. And yes, this is very much my business, because how you raise your children dictates what kind of society my children will live in, so please raise them right.

jimbokun 7y ago

No one is forcing you to get married.

xwdv 7y ago
Force? No. Pressured? Yes. Pressured into being a plain vanilla monogamous couple? Oh yes. Edit: Also, I’ve taken huge hits to my karma in this thread for what I assume people find to be unpopular opinions. I hope some day these people find themselves on the wrong side of history, just like those who worked hard to try to squelch LGBTQ rights.