9 ms·

Someone found a way to bypass Windows 7 Extended Security Updates checks

stevespang 7y ago
. . . System1's "businesses generally do not involve building or maintaining user profiles and little user information is processed or stored within System1". generally ? I call Bullshit on this scheme . . . .
oldienotgoldie 7y ago
Windows 7 is older than Windows XP was when 7 was released. Think about that.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  And 10 still feels like it's in beta.
  - flatiron 7y ago
    I have 10 in a VM and whenever I boot it up I always shake my head and wonder who the heck would want to use this. I feel if you put a KDE desktop and said “here’s Windows 11” most people would say how great the update was.
    - lostmyoldone 7y ago
      I absolutely don't understand what people who claim "Windows 10 is great!" are seeing, it's feels absolutely surreal! It's a mess from a UI perspective, and from any other perspective, it's basically the same OS it has always been.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - HenryBemis 7y ago
        Since I can't add Windows7 on my laptop, I am hanging on (like the cat in the poster) to Win8.1. I am using this "Classic Shell" tool that gives me the Win7 look/desktop/menu/etc. Don't Windows 10 have a similar tool? I've heard from IT folks that Win10Pro does a better job as an OS on CPU/RAM management, and that once you cut out all the crapware (enhance privacy/stop services/use firewall/etc).. doesn't this make it "better"? I am thinking to run Win10Pro on VM to see if I can make it half-decent. As another writer mentioned above, it won't be far that we won't be able to find hardware that runs in previous Win versions.
        NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        The nearest I've seen is Stardock's Windowblinds that gives a very rough approximation of 7 (among other themes). Not aeroglass, and I guess is limited by what 10 allows them to do, but what I saw looked like Win-7-flattened. I'd prefer a more convincing copy, complete with Aeroglass. I haven't tried it as I have memories of Windowblinds from the days of XP ... it was fragile and flaky. They might have fixed that, but I'm wary. I really dislike that modern OS's decided theming is verboten, and all must wear the party uniform.
        jotm 7y ago
        Startisback++ iirc. I actually don't have a problem with the UI, since I only use the start menu and the good old file explorer. Feck those UWP apps.
        windexh8er 7y ago
        Classic Shell is now developed under the name Open-Shell. I was discussing how I debloat non-LTSC instances to a very Microsoft-centric friend and he showed me how Open-Shell is one of the first pieces he installs to take it back to any form of normality. I did inform him he still needs to debloat the spyware/junk and disable telemetry. I've generally found Geek Uninstaller [1] and O&O ShutUp10 [2] work well together to take out the majority. [0] https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu [1] https://geekuninstaller.com/ https://geekuninstaller.com/ [2] https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
      - jotm 7y ago
        Nothing's great about Win10 (7 is just as good, hell even XP would be fine if it was still maintained haha) The software available is great beyond doubt
      - qwerty456127 7y ago
        I use Windows 10 (home edition) at work and have no real problems. There is Win7-like panel, Explorer for files and the command prompt - what else do you need? They have spoiled the configuration dialogs - finding where to tweak something would be hard if I couldn't just Google it, but you just configure it once and forget it. Mysteriously it has also never shown any ads to me although I didn't do anything for this. Windows 10 is not great but it's ok. And I totally love the option to enable keyboard input autocomlpletion (if only I could also enable this on Linux and Mac) - that's amazing when you have to write in foreign languages.
    - oldienotgoldie 7y ago
      People who can't distinguish between Windows 10 and KDE are also not bothered by what HNers complain about: that there is a shortcut to install Candy Crush in the start menu or that the interface is accommodating to tablet usage.
      - asveikau 7y ago
        You forgot that it spends more time scanning for viruses than performing useful work.
    - dkarras 7y ago
      Been running a hackintosh for more than a decade, but had to install windows 10 after a long hiatus (for a family member's computer) last week. It installs, I press start and there is an ad (or something) for Candy Crush there? Like seriously? UX is overall a mess. I couldn't even manage to disable updates (to do them manually). I do 3-4 month long computations or uninterrupted data collection sometimes, how is that supposed to work even with auto-restarts and all? I use Linux for all server stuff but man, macOS spoiled me for desktop.
      - qwerty456127 7y ago
        Why exactly do you not use Linux for desktop? I use Manjaro with KDE and am totally happy, it feels better than Mac (I also have). The only problem is you can't run the latest Visual Studio and Adobe CS.
        dkarras 7y ago
        I do operate linux desktop machines but not as my main driver. As much as I like Linux and OSS in general, the community just does not have UX and design experts. They are not part of the community. As a consequence, all desktop environments in Linux is "programmer art". I have an eye for design and UX in general, and Linux desktop feels like a Frankenstein's monster of features with no coherent logic. Now windows is like that too. Not as bad but still... I also use lots of proprietary software that won't run in Linux (for audio and gfx work) - especially for audio, linux audio stack is and has always been a mess. That said, even if all those software ran comfortably, the desktop experience alone is a dealbreaker for me personally. With macOS, I have a unix and a solid very well thought out desktop experience so I get the best of both worlds. Also with hackintosh, hardware is also cheap (use good old PCs I assemble myself) so overall it is the best of all worlds for me.
      - pcdoodle 7y ago
        10 really sucks. The only work around I've found is server 2016 with desktop experience.
        7y ago
- antisthenes 7y ago
  And if WinXP had support for DX11 and more than 4GB of RAM, I'd gladly stay on it. Software shouldn't be developed for development's sake.
  - squarefoot 7y ago
    "Software shouldn't be developed for development's sake." Probably new training contracts are a good incentive to change things every now and then. Win8 and beyond UIs is the best possible example of a bullet meeting a foot: for the first time I found actually easy to convert some non tech people to use Linux, which in the XP era was at least for common users next to impossible. Messing up the UI wasn't an error, they planned it, but in the end the change was so radical that it could bite them in the butt one day.
  - HenryBemis 7y ago
    You and Steve Gibson! (and me, and anyone who doesn't like the crap MS is trying to pull with the constant spying).
  - anto64do 7y ago
    > and more than 4GB of RAM https://ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10547 https://ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10547
    - zamadatix 7y ago
      PAE is a bit limited, they actually released an x86 64 bit version of XP that worked with more RAM properly and out of the box.
  - zamadatix 7y ago
    And improved filesystem support and an improved CPU scheduler and a redesigned security model and a new network stack and an accelerated compositor for larger/faster displays to work and DPI awareness and proper support for SSDs and UEFI boot and... Point being by the time you actually make XP into something modern it turns into the thing you think you hate.
klingonopera 7y ago
I'm one of those users holding on to Windows 7 as long as possible, and I'm really glad that people are also interested and motivated to keep it running for as long as possible. But I recently got a new laptop, a Ryzen 3550H with the Vega 8 iGPU, and then had to discover, that a) there aren't any drivers for Vega 8 for Windows 7 and b) my laptop's firmware doesn't provide any legacy BIOS emulation required to get Windows 7 running (explicitly: INT10H and VBIOS are required by the fallback Windows 7 graphics driver (VGA.sys), which also runs during setup and PE [0]). I'm glad I recently still got Windows 7 onto desktop, 2nd-gen Ryzen platforms, but I fear that that was one of the last modern PC platforms to be able to run Windows 7. My new laptop now has Windows 10, because I'm currently developing some windows applications, but once I'm done with that, it's over to Linux. This was my first own PC with Windows 10, and I thought I might have a change of heart, but it's truly quite terrible. Subjectively, it doesn't feel like a PC with an OS anymore, more like an advanced XBOX with mouse and keyboard. [0]: http://reboot.pro/topic/21108-install-windows-7-at-uefi-graphics-output-protocol-gop-hardware/ http://reboot.pro/topic/21108-install-windows-7-at-uefi-grap... EDIT: ...but if anyone finds out how to get Windows 7's VGA.sys working with GOP or knows a 3rd party alternative to it, I'm all ears!
- aldoushuxley001 7y ago
  Switch over to Linux Mint, it’s the spiritual successor to Windows 7 (same look and feel), but it’s also Linux which is phenomenal. Windows 7 used to be all I used, because all the latest windows versions take away too much control of my computer from me (eg Windows 10 requiring updates to be installed middle of workday at most inconvenient times.)
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    You could run almost any desktop environment and give it that kind of look and feel. No need to limit oneself to Cinnamon or Linux Mint.
  - oauea 7y ago
    > Windows 10 requiring updates to be installed middle of workday at most inconvenient times That just means you haven't told Windows your working hours, or you never shut down. This has literally never happened to me. It will only start to force you if you've ignored security updates for 2 days or so, which as an IT professional you should appreciate.
Tepix 7y ago
It's weird that Microsoft appears incapable of implement a server-side check that blocks you unless you are eligible to receive paid upgrades.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  I think this only bypasses the "check" on software compatibility and the like, and then only for the test update that was released for free. You're still required to pay or you won't actually get those future updates from M$.
lurker1970 7y ago
Long time lurker here, but I had to create an account to voice my opinion: I am a really happy Windows 10 user! Please, don't judge what others (dis)like and make sweeping generalizations. Many of the issues you mentioned can be addressed (even if imperfectly by your standard). For example, you can pause updates for over a month, then when that time is up, pause again right away. I always get to choose when my computers update. And Windows 10 comes with many improvements over Windows 7. [0][1] Some highlights for me: - Full boot in under 10 seconds (with an SSD) - Dark theme - Windows Sandbox (to run un-trusted/one-off apps in a light VM) - Multiple desktops - Support for new hardware innovations: NVMe, High DPI, HDR, Raytracing But it is fine if you don't consider these improvements as important enough over the cons of Windows 10. Just don't pretend that they don't exist. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8 [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_10
- wott 7y ago
  > - Full boot in under 10 seconds (with an SSD) And then 45 minutes of updates: 15 in the foreground, and then 30 in the background, during which the laptop is still basically unusable (it can take up to 2 minutes for a CTRL-ALT-DEL to come into effect...) despite pretending to be active. Great.
  - klingonopera 7y ago
    Also, that's hardly a feature of Windows 10, more of your SSD and UEFI, as well as the fact that the Windows 10 default doesn't really shutdown anymore, it's now actually a form of hibernation: https://www.howtogeek.com/349114/shutting-down-doesnt-fully-shut-down-windows-10-but-restarting-it-does/ https://www.howtogeek.com/349114/shutting-down-doesnt-fully-... Also, FWIW, I've a laptop with Win7 and an mSATA SSD, booting in legacy BIOS mode with the "No GUI boot" option, and it's there in 10 seconds, too.
- generatorguy 7y ago
  My windows 7 laptops from 2012 with ssd boot in 10 seconds too.
jtbayly 7y ago
On my iPhone this page reloads a couple of times per second and is impossible to scroll or read.
wiseleo 7y ago
Ugh. One thing that drives me nuts is the fact that Microsoft makes it very difficult to use drivers written for the previous release on the new release. I remember Windows 3.1 ".386" drivers that weren't compatible with Windows 95 that introduced ".VXD" drivers compatible up to Windows ME. I remember NT 4 drivers becoming incompatible with XP that introduced WDM. XP drivers stopped being compatible with Vista that introduced WDF architecture for drivers. If I recall correctly, it should still be possible to run pre-WDF NT drivers on Vista. However, every single release starting with Vista uses the same WDF driver architecture. I am puzzled why can't I use Vista drivers on Windows 10 without resorting to hacks. That is my biggest problem with Microsoft - unless the vendor elects to re-release code flagging the new release as supported, my hardware effectively is tied to Windows life span.

. . . System1's "businesses generally do not involve building or maintaining user profiles and little user information is processed or stored within System1". generally ? I call Bullshit on this scheme . . . .

oldienotgoldie 7y ago

Windows 7 is older than Windows XP was when 7 was released. Think about that.

Mirioron 7y ago
And 10 still feels like it's in beta.
- flatiron 7y ago
  I have 10 in a VM and whenever I boot it up I always shake my head and wonder who the heck would want to use this. I feel if you put a KDE desktop and said “here’s Windows 11” most people would say how great the update was.
  - lostmyoldone 7y ago
    I absolutely don't understand what people who claim "Windows 10 is great!" are seeing, it's feels absolutely surreal! It's a mess from a UI perspective, and from any other perspective, it's basically the same OS it has always been.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - HenryBemis 7y ago
      Since I can't add Windows7 on my laptop, I am hanging on (like the cat in the poster) to Win8.1. I am using this "Classic Shell" tool that gives me the Win7 look/desktop/menu/etc. Don't Windows 10 have a similar tool? I've heard from IT folks that Win10Pro does a better job as an OS on CPU/RAM management, and that once you cut out all the crapware (enhance privacy/stop services/use firewall/etc).. doesn't this make it "better"? I am thinking to run Win10Pro on VM to see if I can make it half-decent. As another writer mentioned above, it won't be far that we won't be able to find hardware that runs in previous Win versions.
      - NeedMoreTea 7y ago
        The nearest I've seen is Stardock's Windowblinds that gives a very rough approximation of 7 (among other themes). Not aeroglass, and I guess is limited by what 10 allows them to do, but what I saw looked like Win-7-flattened. I'd prefer a more convincing copy, complete with Aeroglass. I haven't tried it as I have memories of Windowblinds from the days of XP ... it was fragile and flaky. They might have fixed that, but I'm wary. I really dislike that modern OS's decided theming is verboten, and all must wear the party uniform.
      - jotm 7y ago
        Startisback++ iirc. I actually don't have a problem with the UI, since I only use the start menu and the good old file explorer. Feck those UWP apps.
      - windexh8er 7y ago
        Classic Shell is now developed under the name Open-Shell. I was discussing how I debloat non-LTSC instances to a very Microsoft-centric friend and he showed me how Open-Shell is one of the first pieces he installs to take it back to any form of normality. I did inform him he still needs to debloat the spyware/junk and disable telemetry. I've generally found Geek Uninstaller [1] and O&O ShutUp10 [2] work well together to take out the majority. [0] https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu [1] https://geekuninstaller.com/ https://geekuninstaller.com/ [2] https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10 https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
    - jotm 7y ago
      Nothing's great about Win10 (7 is just as good, hell even XP would be fine if it was still maintained haha) The software available is great beyond doubt
    - qwerty456127 7y ago
      I use Windows 10 (home edition) at work and have no real problems. There is Win7-like panel, Explorer for files and the command prompt - what else do you need? They have spoiled the configuration dialogs - finding where to tweak something would be hard if I couldn't just Google it, but you just configure it once and forget it. Mysteriously it has also never shown any ads to me although I didn't do anything for this. Windows 10 is not great but it's ok. And I totally love the option to enable keyboard input autocomlpletion (if only I could also enable this on Linux and Mac) - that's amazing when you have to write in foreign languages.
  - oldienotgoldie 7y ago
    People who can't distinguish between Windows 10 and KDE are also not bothered by what HNers complain about: that there is a shortcut to install Candy Crush in the start menu or that the interface is accommodating to tablet usage.
    - asveikau 7y ago
      You forgot that it spends more time scanning for viruses than performing useful work.
  - dkarras 7y ago
    Been running a hackintosh for more than a decade, but had to install windows 10 after a long hiatus (for a family member's computer) last week. It installs, I press start and there is an ad (or something) for Candy Crush there? Like seriously? UX is overall a mess. I couldn't even manage to disable updates (to do them manually). I do 3-4 month long computations or uninterrupted data collection sometimes, how is that supposed to work even with auto-restarts and all? I use Linux for all server stuff but man, macOS spoiled me for desktop.
    - qwerty456127 7y ago
      Why exactly do you not use Linux for desktop? I use Manjaro with KDE and am totally happy, it feels better than Mac (I also have). The only problem is you can't run the latest Visual Studio and Adobe CS.
      - dkarras 7y ago
        I do operate linux desktop machines but not as my main driver. As much as I like Linux and OSS in general, the community just does not have UX and design experts. They are not part of the community. As a consequence, all desktop environments in Linux is "programmer art". I have an eye for design and UX in general, and Linux desktop feels like a Frankenstein's monster of features with no coherent logic. Now windows is like that too. Not as bad but still... I also use lots of proprietary software that won't run in Linux (for audio and gfx work) - especially for audio, linux audio stack is and has always been a mess. That said, even if all those software ran comfortably, the desktop experience alone is a dealbreaker for me personally. With macOS, I have a unix and a solid very well thought out desktop experience so I get the best of both worlds. Also with hackintosh, hardware is also cheap (use good old PCs I assemble myself) so overall it is the best of all worlds for me.
    - pcdoodle 7y ago
      10 really sucks. The only work around I've found is server 2016 with desktop experience.
      - 7y ago
antisthenes 7y ago
And if WinXP had support for DX11 and more than 4GB of RAM, I'd gladly stay on it. Software shouldn't be developed for development's sake.
- squarefoot 7y ago
  "Software shouldn't be developed for development's sake." Probably new training contracts are a good incentive to change things every now and then. Win8 and beyond UIs is the best possible example of a bullet meeting a foot: for the first time I found actually easy to convert some non tech people to use Linux, which in the XP era was at least for common users next to impossible. Messing up the UI wasn't an error, they planned it, but in the end the change was so radical that it could bite them in the butt one day.
- HenryBemis 7y ago
  You and Steve Gibson! (and me, and anyone who doesn't like the crap MS is trying to pull with the constant spying).
- anto64do 7y ago
  > and more than 4GB of RAM https://ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10547 https://ryanvm.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10547
  - zamadatix 7y ago
    PAE is a bit limited, they actually released an x86 64 bit version of XP that worked with more RAM properly and out of the box.
- zamadatix 7y ago
  And improved filesystem support and an improved CPU scheduler and a redesigned security model and a new network stack and an accelerated compositor for larger/faster displays to work and DPI awareness and proper support for SSDs and UEFI boot and... Point being by the time you actually make XP into something modern it turns into the thing you think you hate.

klingonopera 7y ago

I'm one of those users holding on to Windows 7 as long as possible, and I'm really glad that people are also interested and motivated to keep it running for as long as possible. But I recently got a new laptop, a Ryzen 3550H with the Vega 8 iGPU, and then had to discover, that a) there aren't any drivers for Vega 8 for Windows 7 and b) my laptop's firmware doesn't provide any legacy BIOS emulation required to get Windows 7 running (explicitly: INT10H and VBIOS are required by the fallback Windows 7 graphics driver (VGA.sys), which also runs during setup and PE [0]). I'm glad I recently still got Windows 7 onto desktop, 2nd-gen Ryzen platforms, but I fear that that was one of the last modern PC platforms to be able to run Windows 7. My new laptop now has Windows 10, because I'm currently developing some windows applications, but once I'm done with that, it's over to Linux. This was my first own PC with Windows 10, and I thought I might have a change of heart, but it's truly quite terrible. Subjectively, it doesn't feel like a PC with an OS anymore, more like an advanced XBOX with mouse and keyboard. [0]: http://reboot.pro/topic/21108-install-windows-7-at-uefi-graphics-output-protocol-gop-hardware/ http://reboot.pro/topic/21108-install-windows-7-at-uefi-grap... EDIT: ...but if anyone finds out how to get Windows 7's VGA.sys working with GOP or knows a 3rd party alternative to it, I'm all ears!

aldoushuxley001 7y ago
Switch over to Linux Mint, it’s the spiritual successor to Windows 7 (same look and feel), but it’s also Linux which is phenomenal. Windows 7 used to be all I used, because all the latest windows versions take away too much control of my computer from me (eg Windows 10 requiring updates to be installed middle of workday at most inconvenient times.)
- zozbot234 7y ago
  You could run almost any desktop environment and give it that kind of look and feel. No need to limit oneself to Cinnamon or Linux Mint.
- oauea 7y ago
  > Windows 10 requiring updates to be installed middle of workday at most inconvenient times That just means you haven't told Windows your working hours, or you never shut down. This has literally never happened to me. It will only start to force you if you've ignored security updates for 2 days or so, which as an IT professional you should appreciate.

Tepix 7y ago

It's weird that Microsoft appears incapable of implement a server-side check that blocks you unless you are eligible to receive paid upgrades.

zozbot234 7y ago
I think this only bypasses the "check" on software compatibility and the like, and then only for the test update that was released for free. You're still required to pay or you won't actually get those future updates from M$.

lurker1970 7y ago

Long time lurker here, but I had to create an account to voice my opinion: I am a really happy Windows 10 user! Please, don't judge what others (dis)like and make sweeping generalizations. Many of the issues you mentioned can be addressed (even if imperfectly by your standard). For example, you can pause updates for over a month, then when that time is up, pause again right away. I always get to choose when my computers update. And Windows 10 comes with many improvements over Windows 7. [0][1] Some highlights for me: - Full boot in under 10 seconds (with an SSD) - Dark theme - Windows Sandbox (to run un-trusted/one-off apps in a light VM) - Multiple desktops - Support for new hardware innovations: NVMe, High DPI, HDR, Raytracing But it is fine if you don't consider these improvements as important enough over the cons of Windows 10. Just don't pretend that they don't exist. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8 [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_10

wott 7y ago
> - Full boot in under 10 seconds (with an SSD) And then 45 minutes of updates: 15 in the foreground, and then 30 in the background, during which the laptop is still basically unusable (it can take up to 2 minutes for a CTRL-ALT-DEL to come into effect...) despite pretending to be active. Great.
- klingonopera 7y ago
  Also, that's hardly a feature of Windows 10, more of your SSD and UEFI, as well as the fact that the Windows 10 default doesn't really shutdown anymore, it's now actually a form of hibernation: https://www.howtogeek.com/349114/shutting-down-doesnt-fully-shut-down-windows-10-but-restarting-it-does/ https://www.howtogeek.com/349114/shutting-down-doesnt-fully-... Also, FWIW, I've a laptop with Win7 and an mSATA SSD, booting in legacy BIOS mode with the "No GUI boot" option, and it's there in 10 seconds, too.
generatorguy 7y ago
My windows 7 laptops from 2012 with ssd boot in 10 seconds too.

jtbayly 7y ago

On my iPhone this page reloads a couple of times per second and is impossible to scroll or read.

wiseleo 7y ago

Ugh. One thing that drives me nuts is the fact that Microsoft makes it very difficult to use drivers written for the previous release on the new release. I remember Windows 3.1 ".386" drivers that weren't compatible with Windows 95 that introduced ".VXD" drivers compatible up to Windows ME. I remember NT 4 drivers becoming incompatible with XP that introduced WDM. XP drivers stopped being compatible with Vista that introduced WDF architecture for drivers. If I recall correctly, it should still be possible to run pre-WDF NT drivers on Vista. However, every single release starting with Vista uses the same WDF driver architecture. I am puzzled why can't I use Vista drivers on Windows 10 without resorting to hacks. That is my biggest problem with Microsoft - unless the vendor elects to re-release code flagging the new release as supported, my hardware effectively is tied to Windows life span.