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> Dropbox only onboarded new employees every other Tuesday. This left me without health insurance coverage for a week between jobs. Fortunately, none of the kid

> Dropbox only onboarded new employees every other Tuesday. This left me without health insurance coverage for a week between jobs. Fortunately, none of the kids got hurt that week. This is just insane. I suppose people in the US are so used to this being "the way it is" they're desensitized, but from the outside perspective of the civilized, developed world, this is insane.

djohnston 7y ago
It's fundamentally flawed, no questions there. But usually you are covered under something called cobra I think.
- souterrain 7y ago
  You may optionally purchase coverage under COBRA, typically at the full price, which your employer is required to sell you (assuming the employer meets certain criteria).
  - larrywright 7y ago
    Importantly, you can purchase COBRA after the fact. When I left my last job I inquired about purchasing it because I’d have a gap of a few weeks. I was told by HR that the best thing to do was to hold off on purchasing it. If an event occurred during the gap, such as an ER visit or something similarly expensive, I could purchase COBRA and would have the expense covered.
  - sct202 7y ago
    There are also options to purchase backdated cobra if there is an emergency and you didn't purchase it initially.
souterrain 7y ago
I made this mistake last year, choosing a start date of the 1st. Normally, this would not have been an issue, but it took my employer several weeks to have their benefit management company activate my benefits. Fortunately, my act of loudly demanding they make the benefits retroactive to the 1st got things sorted very quickly. But, this is because I knew how things worked. I would also recommend to US-persons to not switch jobs around a month boundary. The employer-linked healthcare system is burdensome to both employers and employees. It’s not going to change without a dramatic change to the group insurance model.
- toasterlovin 7y ago
  COBRA is the name of the program that covers time between employment.
throwaway8291 7y ago
I'm lucky to be European. I can sleep well, since almost everybody got their basic health care need covered by our system. About 15% of my income goes into healthcare provider - once I am registered, I can use almost any facility available (doctors, dental, traditional or even some alternative medicine approaches, ...), if required. The system is not even that complicated. I am not sure what holds the US back to have a humane care system.
- throw4567 7y ago
  That question is deeply entangled with American race relations. People don't really see themselves as part of one community. The common answer from Americans to such ideas is that yeah yeah you can do that in European country X because it's (racially) homogeneous there but it would never work in the US.
- the_duke 7y ago
  > I am not sure what holds the US back to have a humane care system. A huge industry (almost 18% of US GDP) that has a lot of lobbying power and influence, combined with with decades of anti-socialism messaging.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  >I am not sure ...// It's simple greed, people want to be healthy, rich people can interject themselves into that desire and 'tax' health/wellness. Yay capitalism!
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    That’s probably over simplistic. The current US system doesn’t actually benefit most well-off people; the person who wrote the article probably qualifies as rich by most metrics. There are obviously companies which benefit, but on the whole it’s like it is because large-scale change is hard. Note that even the modest reforms under Obamacare were politically poisonous at the time, even though its somewhat popular now; making a change with long term benefits but short term cost and inconvenience is always hard politically.
Waterluvian 7y ago
It is absolutely beyond the pale for the healthcare access of someone and their family to be linked to their employment. It perverts the freedom of movement between jobs that people have a fundamental right to. I'd love to hear from Americans on the matter. Have you ever made career choices based on the effects it would have on healthcare coverage? Have you ever tolerated a bad job or bad employer because of access to healthcare coverage? Have you ever decided _not_ to take a risk starting your own small business because of loss of healthcare coverage? Have you ever had a family crisis and through it been forced to continue working in order to keep healthcare coverage? I'm sure there are an assortment of remedies, but the fact that access to healthcare _EVER_ factors in to your career is manifestly wrong.
- rsynnott 7y ago
  > It perverts the freedom of movement between jobs that people have a fundamental right to. I was always fascinated that the US simultaneously had this health care system, and also a cultural obsession with small business (this may have faded over the years, but was a huge talking point in the 90s and noughties, especially on the right). “People should start small businesses! Oh, also, if you do that you may die” was just such a perplexing message. Being from a developed English-speaking country, where we get a lot of American media, it’s very easy to just assume that America is pretty much like a bigger version of what I’m used to. Until it comes to the jarring, utterly alien things, like healthcare.
- cpuguy83 7y ago
  My last job's insurance plan cost me $800/mo (family) just for the pleasure of having. Even with the insurance (which changed half way through employment) things like my migraine medication was still $150/mo on top of that (before the change it was not much). This was actually much better than the job before that because at least the company paid for my coverage (may be confusing but that's still $800/mo out of my pocket to cover my family). So yes, just the job you choose can be rather drastic changes in take home pay due to insurance coverage, so a huge impact on what companies you decide to work for. You can imagine the headache each year when it comes time to have to choose insurance plans again.
skizm 7y ago
FWIW: yes it sucks, but in this instance you are allowed to retroactively purchase cobra insurance for several months after leaving a job. This means you get the same discounted rate that your company pays for their insurance. So OP had about 3 months to purchase this, even if someone got sick or hurt before he purchased it, OP was covered in this specific instance. You can continue to purchase this for up to 18 months.
dfsegoat 7y ago
> This left me without health insurance coverage for a week between jobs...I suppose people in the US are so used to this being "the way it is" No. Actually we are not used to that being the way it is, the US has had a solution in place for this very problem since 1985 [1,2] - it's called COBRA and it extends your health care coverage after you leave a job that provides it. Make no mistake - you pay for it. But by US employment law, HR is required to inform you about how to get COBRA to continue your health care coverage after you separate. So author either had a company violating labor laws - or he declined COBRA coverage. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Re... 2 - https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra
- samfriedman 7y ago
  It's very expensive but you can purchase it retroactively - so don't have to pay for it unless you actually need to pay for medical expenses during the gap period.
- iancmceachern 7y ago
  One catch, COBRA is oy for companies of a certain size.
ck425 7y ago
I came to post the exact same comment. How can you build a functioning society with this type of BS? How can you encourage people to become entrepreneurs with this?
maxerickson 7y ago
Many people will qualify for COBRA and simply don't realize that they have the option of keeping their insurance. It's expensive, but that isn't a good excuse in this situation. (it's been in place since Reagan...my point isn't really to defend the shitty system, it's to say, people should fully understand the options they do have)
sys_64738 7y ago
This is why we have ObamaCare and COBRA.
- Infinitesimus 7y ago
  That does help a consistently throwing patches over these issues make it harder and harder to make meaningful changes. I'm convinced that the only way heslthcare will get better in the US is if a president sacrifices re-election and forces sweeping changes that hurt employment (insurance companies, employer-provided healthcare, etc.)
dangus 7y ago
It sounds insane because it's not truly how it works in the USA. This author was probably unaware of COBRA. When you quit your job that offers healthcare benefits, you can temporarily continue coverage under COBRA. This is a required program for any employer with more than 20 employees: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra Essentially, if something happens where you need healthcare services, you have your previous insurance billed and retroactively fill out some COBRA forms and pay your premium (which will be higher because your employer isn't contributing anymore, but the price is capped to 102% of the overall cost). If you don't end up needing any healthcare services, your previous employer's plan just ends automatically. Also, a loss of coverage (i.e. by job loss) is a qualifying life event for a coverage change. This author could have enrolled in an insurance marketplace ("Obamacare") plan immediately, although the alternative of using COBRA for a small employment gap is usually preferable. https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/qualifying-life-event/ https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/qualifying-life-event/
dang 7y ago
You started an off-topic flamewar with this comment. The site guidelines explicitly ask commenters not to: "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html The classic flamewar topics are like black holes that suck in everything that comes close to them. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20black%20hole&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Topics this generic never produce unpredictable discussion—doubly so when they're also divisive and inflammatory, which most are. On HN we want intellectually curious conversation. To get that, we need topics that are specific and unpredictable, not generic and well-trodden. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20discussion&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

djohnston 7y ago

It's fundamentally flawed, no questions there. But usually you are covered under something called cobra I think.

souterrain 7y ago
You may optionally purchase coverage under COBRA, typically at the full price, which your employer is required to sell you (assuming the employer meets certain criteria).
- larrywright 7y ago
  Importantly, you can purchase COBRA after the fact. When I left my last job I inquired about purchasing it because I’d have a gap of a few weeks. I was told by HR that the best thing to do was to hold off on purchasing it. If an event occurred during the gap, such as an ER visit or something similarly expensive, I could purchase COBRA and would have the expense covered.
- sct202 7y ago
  There are also options to purchase backdated cobra if there is an emergency and you didn't purchase it initially.

souterrain 7y ago

I made this mistake last year, choosing a start date of the 1st. Normally, this would not have been an issue, but it took my employer several weeks to have their benefit management company activate my benefits. Fortunately, my act of loudly demanding they make the benefits retroactive to the 1st got things sorted very quickly. But, this is because I knew how things worked. I would also recommend to US-persons to not switch jobs around a month boundary. The employer-linked healthcare system is burdensome to both employers and employees. It’s not going to change without a dramatic change to the group insurance model.

toasterlovin 7y ago
COBRA is the name of the program that covers time between employment.

throwaway8291 7y ago

I'm lucky to be European. I can sleep well, since almost everybody got their basic health care need covered by our system. About 15% of my income goes into healthcare provider - once I am registered, I can use almost any facility available (doctors, dental, traditional or even some alternative medicine approaches, ...), if required. The system is not even that complicated. I am not sure what holds the US back to have a humane care system.

throw4567 7y ago
That question is deeply entangled with American race relations. People don't really see themselves as part of one community. The common answer from Americans to such ideas is that yeah yeah you can do that in European country X because it's (racially) homogeneous there but it would never work in the US.
the_duke 7y ago
> I am not sure what holds the US back to have a humane care system. A huge industry (almost 18% of US GDP) that has a lot of lobbying power and influence, combined with with decades of anti-socialism messaging.
pbhjpbhj 7y ago
>I am not sure ...// It's simple greed, people want to be healthy, rich people can interject themselves into that desire and 'tax' health/wellness. Yay capitalism!
- rsynnott 7y ago
  That’s probably over simplistic. The current US system doesn’t actually benefit most well-off people; the person who wrote the article probably qualifies as rich by most metrics. There are obviously companies which benefit, but on the whole it’s like it is because large-scale change is hard. Note that even the modest reforms under Obamacare were politically poisonous at the time, even though its somewhat popular now; making a change with long term benefits but short term cost and inconvenience is always hard politically.

Waterluvian 7y ago

It is absolutely beyond the pale for the healthcare access of someone and their family to be linked to their employment. It perverts the freedom of movement between jobs that people have a fundamental right to. I'd love to hear from Americans on the matter. Have you ever made career choices based on the effects it would have on healthcare coverage? Have you ever tolerated a bad job or bad employer because of access to healthcare coverage? Have you ever decided _not_ to take a risk starting your own small business because of loss of healthcare coverage? Have you ever had a family crisis and through it been forced to continue working in order to keep healthcare coverage? I'm sure there are an assortment of remedies, but the fact that access to healthcare _EVER_ factors in to your career is manifestly wrong.

rsynnott 7y ago
> It perverts the freedom of movement between jobs that people have a fundamental right to. I was always fascinated that the US simultaneously had this health care system, and also a cultural obsession with small business (this may have faded over the years, but was a huge talking point in the 90s and noughties, especially on the right). “People should start small businesses! Oh, also, if you do that you may die” was just such a perplexing message. Being from a developed English-speaking country, where we get a lot of American media, it’s very easy to just assume that America is pretty much like a bigger version of what I’m used to. Until it comes to the jarring, utterly alien things, like healthcare.
cpuguy83 7y ago
My last job's insurance plan cost me $800/mo (family) just for the pleasure of having. Even with the insurance (which changed half way through employment) things like my migraine medication was still $150/mo on top of that (before the change it was not much). This was actually much better than the job before that because at least the company paid for my coverage (may be confusing but that's still $800/mo out of my pocket to cover my family). So yes, just the job you choose can be rather drastic changes in take home pay due to insurance coverage, so a huge impact on what companies you decide to work for. You can imagine the headache each year when it comes time to have to choose insurance plans again.

skizm 7y ago

FWIW: yes it sucks, but in this instance you are allowed to retroactively purchase cobra insurance for several months after leaving a job. This means you get the same discounted rate that your company pays for their insurance. So OP had about 3 months to purchase this, even if someone got sick or hurt before he purchased it, OP was covered in this specific instance. You can continue to purchase this for up to 18 months.

dfsegoat 7y ago

> This left me without health insurance coverage for a week between jobs...I suppose people in the US are so used to this being "the way it is" No. Actually we are not used to that being the way it is, the US has had a solution in place for this very problem since 1985 [1,2] - it's called COBRA and it extends your health care coverage after you leave a job that provides it. Make no mistake - you pay for it. But by US employment law, HR is required to inform you about how to get COBRA to continue your health care coverage after you separate. So author either had a company violating labor laws - or he declined COBRA coverage. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Reconciliation_Act_of_1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Omnibus_Budget_Re... 2 - https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra

samfriedman 7y ago
It's very expensive but you can purchase it retroactively - so don't have to pay for it unless you actually need to pay for medical expenses during the gap period.
iancmceachern 7y ago
One catch, COBRA is oy for companies of a certain size.

ck425 7y ago

I came to post the exact same comment. How can you build a functioning society with this type of BS? How can you encourage people to become entrepreneurs with this?

maxerickson 7y ago

Many people will qualify for COBRA and simply don't realize that they have the option of keeping their insurance. It's expensive, but that isn't a good excuse in this situation. (it's been in place since Reagan...my point isn't really to defend the shitty system, it's to say, people should fully understand the options they do have)

sys_64738 7y ago

This is why we have ObamaCare and COBRA.

Infinitesimus 7y ago
That does help a consistently throwing patches over these issues make it harder and harder to make meaningful changes. I'm convinced that the only way heslthcare will get better in the US is if a president sacrifices re-election and forces sweeping changes that hurt employment (insurance companies, employer-provided healthcare, etc.)

dangus 7y ago

It sounds insane because it's not truly how it works in the USA. This author was probably unaware of COBRA. When you quit your job that offers healthcare benefits, you can temporarily continue coverage under COBRA. This is a required program for any employer with more than 20 employees: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/health-plans/cobra Essentially, if something happens where you need healthcare services, you have your previous insurance billed and retroactively fill out some COBRA forms and pay your premium (which will be higher because your employer isn't contributing anymore, but the price is capped to 102% of the overall cost). If you don't end up needing any healthcare services, your previous employer's plan just ends automatically. Also, a loss of coverage (i.e. by job loss) is a qualifying life event for a coverage change. This author could have enrolled in an insurance marketplace ("Obamacare") plan immediately, although the alternative of using COBRA for a small employment gap is usually preferable. https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/qualifying-life-event/ https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/qualifying-life-event/

dang 7y ago

You started an off-topic flamewar with this comment. The site guidelines explicitly ask commenters not to: "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html The classic flamewar topics are like black holes that suck in everything that comes close to them. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20black%20hole&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... Topics this generic never produce unpredictable discussion—doubly so when they're also divisive and inflammatory, which most are. On HN we want intellectually curious conversation. To get that, we need topics that are specific and unpredictable, not generic and well-trodden. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20generic%20discussion&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...