6 ms·

As I was reading, I was about to pipe up with "oh, prosecuting whistleblowers and intimidating journalists? I hope the US and the UK are in the same boat" but y

As I was reading, I was about to pipe up with "oh, prosecuting whistleblowers and intimidating journalists? I hope the US and the UK are in the same boat" but yup, they are, according to the CIVICUS map. I see no reason to disagree. I do have to say I'm surprised that Canada is considered 'open'. I don't know much about their politics, are things really good there on all those points? Also, highly amused by Russia only being 'Repressed', the past few years of news from that place seem anything but democratic.

mac_was 7y ago
Very good point, journalists, politicians being murdered but it is repressed...
- hjek 7y ago
  Well, an MP was murdered in the UK a few years ago, and the current PM is making light of the murder.
Naga 7y ago
On Canada, generally yes, it is.
cryptica 7y ago
Having lived in Russia for 6 months in the past, it's is not as bad as western media makes it seem. Unlike China, their internet is still open. Also, internet access is much cheaper there than in the west. Politically, people are definitely afraid to speak out against top government figures but there is still some freedom of expression politically but of course not quite at the level of most of the western world. Russia's government is relatively new and people are still getting used to capitalism and democracy. I think people are still in control because they know most of the facts. People are simply more tolerant of their politicians bending the rules. Russians like a strong leader; for most Russian people, this is more important than democracy itself.
- Fnoord 7y ago
  > Russians like a strong leader; for most Russian people, this is more important than democracy itself. In the same way Italians preferred Berlusconi, despite the scandals (e.g. Bunga Bunga sex parties [1])? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunga_bunga#Resurgence_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunga_bunga#Resurgence_in_Ital...
  - Synaesthesia 7y ago
    You have to also understand the context. Russia was ruined by Yeltsin and the free for all under him, it was a major catastrophe. So of course Putin, who brought Russia out of the abyss and back into a position of power, will be popular there.
    - zzzcpan 7y ago
      > Russia was ruined by Yeltsin This is just propaganda. Another way to look at it: Putin, as a head of FSB, sabotaged Yeltsin to get into power.
- thejohnconway 7y ago
  You’re getting unfairly downvoted, HN seems to have weird groupthink on Russia. I have heard this exact thing from other people who have lived in Russia, and it is a legitimate point of view.
  - atomi 7y ago
    I think generally people don't like Russia's influence campaigns on Western democracies and that distaste bleeds over; not to mention it's imperialist campaigns against Ukraine.
    - thejohnconway 7y ago
      Yes, and decades of anti-Russian sentiment due to the Cold War, maybe. Russia’s position in Ukraine is distasteful to the west, but entirely in keeping with their defence strategy which has been consistent for hundreds of years.
kzrdude 7y ago
The anglosphere is in trouble in this way, at least much of it is. There's several factors that influence this across countries, and one of them is Robert Murdoch and the erosion of media culture.
- roenxi 7y ago
  Murdoch is a leaf on the river compared to technological change. Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet exposed a lot of what they do as vapid misinformation and opened up better options to do research. If I want to know about a politician's platform I can re-watch their debates and read their policies on demand. If I want to know about a subject, I can go straight to relevant technical reports. If I want to know about Cardinals being arrested for pedophilia then the newspapers are the only places that don't carry the news. Reading a newspaper article generally has negative value add, journalists usually don't capture the nuances. But the bigger picture of authoritarianism is more to do with the technology needed to enable it. It is very cheap and efficient to run an authoritarian state with improved surveillance/computer vision and the ability to control people's purchasing with the electronic banking system. We're already seeing early attempts at exercising this control in Australia with the cash ban bill this year. It'll ratchet up as time passes.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    > Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet exposed a lot of what they do as vapid misinformation and opened up better options to do research. Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet eroded the revenue stream that supported much if the good high quality journalism out there and opened up a world where chemtrails and anti-vax are the result as 'better options to do research'. If I want to know about Cardinals being arrested for pedophilia then - you should thank papers like the Boston Globe for thei heavyweight investigative resources and guts.
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    All of the new media analysis speakers are disappearing behind pay walls. The Murdoch properties will be competing on roughly even ground against other paywalled off media properties, something his companies can plausibly succeed at outperforming their competitors. The old media has been losing out hand over fist against free analysis, but that is disappearing. Repackaging the news into analysis for a world view is becoming walled off again, how it used to be.
zzzcpan 7y ago
Yeah, the map is a bit weird and biased, maybe just uninformed or influence of governments is spilling over to the map. I see examples of repressed status given to closed countries, obstructed and narrowed to more open than narrowed countries.

mac_was 7y ago

Very good point, journalists, politicians being murdered but it is repressed...

hjek 7y ago
Well, an MP was murdered in the UK a few years ago, and the current PM is making light of the murder.

Naga 7y ago

On Canada, generally yes, it is.

cryptica 7y ago

Having lived in Russia for 6 months in the past, it's is not as bad as western media makes it seem. Unlike China, their internet is still open. Also, internet access is much cheaper there than in the west. Politically, people are definitely afraid to speak out against top government figures but there is still some freedom of expression politically but of course not quite at the level of most of the western world. Russia's government is relatively new and people are still getting used to capitalism and democracy. I think people are still in control because they know most of the facts. People are simply more tolerant of their politicians bending the rules. Russians like a strong leader; for most Russian people, this is more important than democracy itself.

Fnoord 7y ago
> Russians like a strong leader; for most Russian people, this is more important than democracy itself. In the same way Italians preferred Berlusconi, despite the scandals (e.g. Bunga Bunga sex parties [1])? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunga_bunga#Resurgence_in_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunga_bunga#Resurgence_in_Ital...
- Synaesthesia 7y ago
  You have to also understand the context. Russia was ruined by Yeltsin and the free for all under him, it was a major catastrophe. So of course Putin, who brought Russia out of the abyss and back into a position of power, will be popular there.
  - zzzcpan 7y ago
    > Russia was ruined by Yeltsin This is just propaganda. Another way to look at it: Putin, as a head of FSB, sabotaged Yeltsin to get into power.
thejohnconway 7y ago
You’re getting unfairly downvoted, HN seems to have weird groupthink on Russia. I have heard this exact thing from other people who have lived in Russia, and it is a legitimate point of view.
- atomi 7y ago
  I think generally people don't like Russia's influence campaigns on Western democracies and that distaste bleeds over; not to mention it's imperialist campaigns against Ukraine.
  - thejohnconway 7y ago
    Yes, and decades of anti-Russian sentiment due to the Cold War, maybe. Russia’s position in Ukraine is distasteful to the west, but entirely in keeping with their defence strategy which has been consistent for hundreds of years.

kzrdude 7y ago

The anglosphere is in trouble in this way, at least much of it is. There's several factors that influence this across countries, and one of them is Robert Murdoch and the erosion of media culture.

roenxi 7y ago
Murdoch is a leaf on the river compared to technological change. Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet exposed a lot of what they do as vapid misinformation and opened up better options to do research. If I want to know about a politician's platform I can re-watch their debates and read their policies on demand. If I want to know about a subject, I can go straight to relevant technical reports. If I want to know about Cardinals being arrested for pedophilia then the newspapers are the only places that don't carry the news. Reading a newspaper article generally has negative value add, journalists usually don't capture the nuances. But the bigger picture of authoritarianism is more to do with the technology needed to enable it. It is very cheap and efficient to run an authoritarian state with improved surveillance/computer vision and the ability to control people's purchasing with the electronic banking system. We're already seeing early attempts at exercising this control in Australia with the cash ban bill this year. It'll ratchet up as time passes.
- Angostura 7y ago
  > Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet exposed a lot of what they do as vapid misinformation and opened up better options to do research. Traditional journalism became endangered because the internet eroded the revenue stream that supported much if the good high quality journalism out there and opened up a world where chemtrails and anti-vax are the result as 'better options to do research'. If I want to know about Cardinals being arrested for pedophilia then - you should thank papers like the Boston Globe for thei heavyweight investigative resources and guts.
- friendlybus 7y ago
  All of the new media analysis speakers are disappearing behind pay walls. The Murdoch properties will be competing on roughly even ground against other paywalled off media properties, something his companies can plausibly succeed at outperforming their competitors. The old media has been losing out hand over fist against free analysis, but that is disappearing. Repackaging the news into analysis for a world view is becoming walled off again, how it used to be.

zzzcpan 7y ago

Yeah, the map is a bit weird and biased, maybe just uninformed or influence of governments is spilling over to the map. I see examples of repressed status given to closed countries, obstructed and narrowed to more open than narrowed countries.