4 ms·

> we really need is a way to pay for content so content creators can survive So, just buy more BAT and you dont need to see ads. other people may not be able t

> we really need is a way to pay for content so content creators can survive So, just buy more BAT and you dont need to see ads. other people may not be able to afford paying, so they 'll prefer to see ads > but leaves the advertiser in the game. Why? The printing press, radio and TV always had ads, why? becuase it's the most natural fit, and it allows them to have more / better content. ad-supported content is not going away. A world with more options is always better

bluecalm 7y ago
Does it show them to have better content though? Radio sucks these days as your get long as segments every 20 minutes. TV is just poison to your brain with constant ad bombarding. Press is dying and for good reason: it's basically low quality opinion pieces. Most journalists don't link to sources and can't stop themselves from inserting opinions presented as facts. I think Internet exposed even the most well established newspapers. You can get way better information by just looking for sources. I watch my movies on Netflix, sports on paid streaming services with little to no ads. The only quality ad supported content I am able to find is on YouTube mainly interviews, podcasts and educational videos. Even then I am supposedly able to pay to not watch the ads (YouTube red wasn't available in my country last time I've checked). Ads poison the content. People are willing to pay 50-100$ to watch a boxing night. I don't think it's impossible to make them pay for quality content.
- buboard 7y ago
  > I don't think it's impossible Only a very small percentage of users are willing to pay for an online service, that's < 2% usually. It's also very difficult and costly to accept payments for small amounts and do the accounting, sales tax / VAT properly. Ads are comparatively much easier to setup.
stazz1 7y ago
I don't read books with ads, I don't watch films with ads, I don't listen to music with ads. One-way broadcast technologies where one suckles at the teat of momma-Media-empire will come with ads because baby cannot help but drink what momma puts into her nutrition. The content model has changed, the internet is a two-way or multiplayer chat, not a one-way broadcast. Advertising has no place on the internet. Advertisements are not a stand-in for content. Human attention is not a commodity. These problems are solvable, but not with steam engines and model Ts. Why wedge a brand new frontier of technology between the rear view mirror of the obsolescence desert and a nearby Tuesday? Surely we can think of something more delightful than indirectly pointing to consumption via thinly veiled business-as-art. As one who adores the study of logo and design, it doesn't make sense to pay someone to make mediocre art to sell me something instead of just using that money to make good art in the first place. There.
- buboard 7y ago
  people are free to create their own ad-free internet platform. that doesn't mean that they have a right to force this model on everyone. now excuse me, i have to walk my unicorn
  - stazz1 7y ago
    I did not mean to be adversarial, I think you brought up some excellent points, and I thank you for the opportunity to organize thought on the matter. Your observation that radio will always have advertisements is unchallengeable, it's only inevitable that there will be a mix of approaches as we go forward.
- betterbeehome 7y ago
  Just so you know, there are plenty of books, films and music with ads. The harder you try to run away from ads, the more you pay to escape them, the harder they'll try to get you to see them and the more they'll pay for it. That's why I think it's inevitable for Netflix to get ads. Even if it's not a pre-roll ad, it could be just tons of in-content advertisements. Like they do with a lot of movies. Such as Sony movies, plenty of Sony phones, laptop, TVs, speakers, etc. The only way to get rid of ads from your life, is to become a billionaire that owns a personal city where you can outlaw them yourself. Otherwise, you're screwed.
  - stinos 7y ago
    Just so you know, there are plenty of books, films and music with ads Yes, and also plenty without, so that doesn't prove much I'm afraid. The harder you try to run away from ads, the more you pay to escape them, the harder they'll try to get you to see them and the more they'll pay for it. Do you mean this literally, and if so can you give an example? Just asking because I've never experienced anything like this. Or I don't know what you mean.
noxer 7y ago
By buying BAT I support people getting paid for watching ads. Also and open door for ad-fraud. Bat browser doesn't know if a real user watches the ads. Do we really need more click farms and all that crap? The solution to all this is so obvious; the third party must be removed from the equation. Local "fee" (ad monetized) prints are horrible. Never used Radio so I can't say anything about that. TV however has become more and more ad cluttered and low quality over the last decades to the point where I completely stopped watching any TV several years ago. Ads may fit in newspapers and in TV programs. But when newspapers and TV programs are created for the sole purpose to serve ads it just results in crap. Ads don't incentive good content. They incentive click-bait titles, fake news and an anything that maximizes the time an end user waists.
- cookie_monsta 7y ago
  > when newspapers and TV programs are created for the sole purpose to serve ads it just results in crap Do you think that they are created to enlighten and entertain you? The model is: get your attention, and mix some ads in with the content. User gets content, advertiser gets customers, publisher makes profit. The $3 you pay for a newspaper barely covers distribution costs. And they have to be created from scratch and actually printed every day. High frequency publishing and advertising have always co existed. And the internet is just the latest iteration of high frequency publication.
- buboard 7y ago
  > They incentive click-bait titles that's because in digital, google & FB are gobbling up the bulk of advertising budgets, leaving little money in display advertising to be shared by hundreds of media sites. it's not an inherent property of ads that they create clickbait, it's the need for increasingly more ad views.
  - noxer 7y ago
    The inherent property of ads is that a third-party is involved who strives for maximal profit at the cost of the other two parties. Even the nicest possible third-party can't make the deal better for the others.
anewvillager 7y ago
> The printing press, radio and TV always had ads This is not true. Pervasive advertising is far from a natural state of media and is actually an extremely recent innovation.
- cookie_monsta 7y ago
  Yes - it only really caught on when the Egyptians started putting it on papyrus
- arkitaip 7y ago
  TV programming is the USA was pretty much created when advertisers realized the potential of the medium yet understood that no one would watch ads non-stop, which is why the had talk shows, tv series, game shows, etc made. The first TV ad - for Bulova watches - dates back to 1941, just two years after the first TV sets were sold to the public at the 1939 World's Fair.
  - rswail 7y ago
    The reason soap operas are called that is because they sold soap.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
tripzilch 7y ago
> other people may not be able to afford paying, so they 'll prefer to see ads they'll prefer to use an adblocker, thank you very much. ads cause clickbait.
- buboard 7y ago
  how does adblocking reduce clickbait?

bluecalm 7y ago

Does it show them to have better content though? Radio sucks these days as your get long as segments every 20 minutes. TV is just poison to your brain with constant ad bombarding. Press is dying and for good reason: it's basically low quality opinion pieces. Most journalists don't link to sources and can't stop themselves from inserting opinions presented as facts. I think Internet exposed even the most well established newspapers. You can get way better information by just looking for sources. I watch my movies on Netflix, sports on paid streaming services with little to no ads. The only quality ad supported content I am able to find is on YouTube mainly interviews, podcasts and educational videos. Even then I am supposedly able to pay to not watch the ads (YouTube red wasn't available in my country last time I've checked). Ads poison the content. People are willing to pay 50-100$ to watch a boxing night. I don't think it's impossible to make them pay for quality content.

buboard 7y ago
> I don't think it's impossible Only a very small percentage of users are willing to pay for an online service, that's < 2% usually. It's also very difficult and costly to accept payments for small amounts and do the accounting, sales tax / VAT properly. Ads are comparatively much easier to setup.

stazz1 7y ago

I don't read books with ads, I don't watch films with ads, I don't listen to music with ads. One-way broadcast technologies where one suckles at the teat of momma-Media-empire will come with ads because baby cannot help but drink what momma puts into her nutrition. The content model has changed, the internet is a two-way or multiplayer chat, not a one-way broadcast. Advertising has no place on the internet. Advertisements are not a stand-in for content. Human attention is not a commodity. These problems are solvable, but not with steam engines and model Ts. Why wedge a brand new frontier of technology between the rear view mirror of the obsolescence desert and a nearby Tuesday? Surely we can think of something more delightful than indirectly pointing to consumption via thinly veiled business-as-art. As one who adores the study of logo and design, it doesn't make sense to pay someone to make mediocre art to sell me something instead of just using that money to make good art in the first place. There.

buboard 7y ago
people are free to create their own ad-free internet platform. that doesn't mean that they have a right to force this model on everyone. now excuse me, i have to walk my unicorn
- stazz1 7y ago
  I did not mean to be adversarial, I think you brought up some excellent points, and I thank you for the opportunity to organize thought on the matter. Your observation that radio will always have advertisements is unchallengeable, it's only inevitable that there will be a mix of approaches as we go forward.
betterbeehome 7y ago
Just so you know, there are plenty of books, films and music with ads. The harder you try to run away from ads, the more you pay to escape them, the harder they'll try to get you to see them and the more they'll pay for it. That's why I think it's inevitable for Netflix to get ads. Even if it's not a pre-roll ad, it could be just tons of in-content advertisements. Like they do with a lot of movies. Such as Sony movies, plenty of Sony phones, laptop, TVs, speakers, etc. The only way to get rid of ads from your life, is to become a billionaire that owns a personal city where you can outlaw them yourself. Otherwise, you're screwed.
- stinos 7y ago
  Just so you know, there are plenty of books, films and music with ads Yes, and also plenty without, so that doesn't prove much I'm afraid. The harder you try to run away from ads, the more you pay to escape them, the harder they'll try to get you to see them and the more they'll pay for it. Do you mean this literally, and if so can you give an example? Just asking because I've never experienced anything like this. Or I don't know what you mean.

noxer 7y ago

By buying BAT I support people getting paid for watching ads. Also and open door for ad-fraud. Bat browser doesn't know if a real user watches the ads. Do we really need more click farms and all that crap? The solution to all this is so obvious; the third party must be removed from the equation. Local "fee" (ad monetized) prints are horrible. Never used Radio so I can't say anything about that. TV however has become more and more ad cluttered and low quality over the last decades to the point where I completely stopped watching any TV several years ago. Ads may fit in newspapers and in TV programs. But when newspapers and TV programs are created for the sole purpose to serve ads it just results in crap. Ads don't incentive good content. They incentive click-bait titles, fake news and an anything that maximizes the time an end user waists.

cookie_monsta 7y ago
> when newspapers and TV programs are created for the sole purpose to serve ads it just results in crap Do you think that they are created to enlighten and entertain you? The model is: get your attention, and mix some ads in with the content. User gets content, advertiser gets customers, publisher makes profit. The $3 you pay for a newspaper barely covers distribution costs. And they have to be created from scratch and actually printed every day. High frequency publishing and advertising have always co existed. And the internet is just the latest iteration of high frequency publication.
buboard 7y ago
> They incentive click-bait titles that's because in digital, google & FB are gobbling up the bulk of advertising budgets, leaving little money in display advertising to be shared by hundreds of media sites. it's not an inherent property of ads that they create clickbait, it's the need for increasingly more ad views.
- noxer 7y ago
  The inherent property of ads is that a third-party is involved who strives for maximal profit at the cost of the other two parties. Even the nicest possible third-party can't make the deal better for the others.

anewvillager 7y ago

> The printing press, radio and TV always had ads This is not true. Pervasive advertising is far from a natural state of media and is actually an extremely recent innovation.

cookie_monsta 7y ago
Yes - it only really caught on when the Egyptians started putting it on papyrus
arkitaip 7y ago
TV programming is the USA was pretty much created when advertisers realized the potential of the medium yet understood that no one would watch ads non-stop, which is why the had talk shows, tv series, game shows, etc made. The first TV ad - for Bulova watches - dates back to 1941, just two years after the first TV sets were sold to the public at the 1939 World's Fair.
- rswail 7y ago
  The reason soap operas are called that is because they sold soap.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

tripzilch 7y ago

> other people may not be able to afford paying, so they 'll prefer to see ads they'll prefer to use an adblocker, thank you very much. ads cause clickbait.

buboard 7y ago
how does adblocking reduce clickbait?