8 ms·

I'm sorry about your health issues, but it appears to me that they are (understandably) affecting your overall mindset. There are plenty of disabled men in fun

I'm sorry about your health issues, but it appears to me that they are (understandably) affecting your overall mindset. There are plenty of disabled men in functional relatioships (and not-so-functional ones, there is a subset of people, male or female, that are specifically attracted to ill or dying partners for problematic reasons). Please lose the incel angle.

datingthrowaway 7y ago
Show me some. If you are able to find examples, they will most likely be famous billionaires or actors. However I can point you to an equal number of examples where fame and fortune still didn't cut it. You cannot discount my experiences and observations unless you have gone through this yourself.
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  The idea that blind people don't/can't date is readily disprovable. Examples of anything will tend to be notable; that doesn't mean non-notable people don't exist. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5ajj7/how-dating-works-when-youre-living-with-blindness https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5ajj7/how-dating-works-w... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2017/01/09/what-is-it-like-to-date-while-blind/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2017/01/09/wh... You might consider finding a local support group for people who've recently lost their sight.
  - scott_s 7y ago
    I think a local support group is an excellent suggestion.
  - jimbokun 7y ago
    Those are both written by women about their experiences. Any examples of men successfully dating after starting to lose their eyesight? Or other disabilities? I think I've read other articles in the past about women with disabilities having a relatively easy time dating, but men with disabilities having a lot more difficulty.
    - ceejayoz 7y ago
      Two men (one with glaucoma, which generally starts in adulthood) are quoted in https://metro.co.uk/2017/11/08/what-its-like-to-date-when-youre-blind-7041772/ https://metro.co.uk/2017/11/08/what-its-like-to-date-when-yo... - as you might expect, "non-notable recently blind men dating" isn't a super easy thing to Google for. The first mentions dating within the blind community, which would likely make things substantially easier on both parties. I've seen enough weird parings and horrible people in relationships to feel quite comfortable with the statement "blind isn't a guaranteed deal-breaker". I do suspect the recency matters a lot - grief after loss can be all-consuming and take time to come to terms with. Side note: My spouse is disabled, so I'm also quite comfortable with the concept of dating someone with a disability.
      - jimbokun 7y ago
        Hey, thanks for the link! Good to see concrete examples.
      - avgDev 7y ago
        I have an invisible illness, after seeing more physicians that I can count. The conclusion appears to be some neurological issues with connective tissue problems which result in chronic pain and fatigue most likely caused by antibiotic I took 7 years as symptoms started right after my allergic reaction. I got married after symptoms began. It was not easy but life doesn't stop. I'm still coming to terms and searching for something that works meds/supplements/physical therapy. However, I don't considered myself disabled even though this is quite limiting and I require more rest. I think once one accepts your alignment and find ways of still being a member of the society, one will have a much better luck dating. I think the depression that these problems bring is just really hard to deal with and affects people around us.
- tristor 7y ago
  I am not blind, but I do have a condition which causes my eyesight to get progressively worse (luckily on an elongated timespan). I by happenstance ended up becoming best friends with a blind student when I was in college during a period where I was trying to learn about and understand my condition. That introduced me to organizations like the NFB, and I even attended some regional NFB conferences. I'd definitely recommend you get involved in blindness advocacy groups in your area. What I found might surprise you. Blind people have normal relationships just like anyone else, and conferences tend to be a hotbed of dating and connection-making beyond just the topic of the day. My best friend is happily married now for more than 10 years, and I am in a long-term relationship coming up on my 2nd year anniversary. I've since met multiple blind people in the tech industry and found most of them to be successful in their career and in their relationships. I'd heavily recommend you get involved in local groups and also to go out and do whatever activities interest you. Most people are more accepting than you might imagine. There's a lot of things that might be difficult due to visual acuity, but people are understanding are willing to give you space to be part of the group. For instance, I've found that board gaming and D&D are very popular activities with the geekier folks I know in the blind community, and for those who are partially sighted using assistive technology like magnification cameras on their phone or similar makes these things possible to do without significant impairment. You'll be more likely to meet someone you're compatible with if you get out of the house and go participate in mixed gender hobbies. You may not want to hear this, but it's the truest observation I've made. Those folks who are struggling in the blind community have often put themselves in a situation to struggle. There's pervasive negative feedback loops when someone becomes disabled, especially if they become disabled later in life. It's easy to become hopeless, and it's easy for your own insecurities about your disability to sabotage the relationships you'd otherwise have, both professional and romantic. In the words of my best friend, "You're blind. So what? So am I. Go make something of yourself." Don't get fooled into throwing yourself a pity party. Instead go do the things necessary in your life to be an attractive romantic partner, and you will find that your disability is not the impediment you imagine. Romance is about emotional connection, first and foremost.
- coldtea 7y ago
  >Show me some. If you are able to find examples, they will most likely be famous billionaires or actors. Are you saying this seriously? Go to a local club for blind people, or some club for people with some other disability, and you'll find many living perfectly normal lives, in relationships, etc. You will also find several who don't have a relationship (which also true in abled people). But it's in no way like you need to be a famous artist/billionaire etc to be blind/disabled/etc and have a relationship. Not even close. >You cannot discount my experiences and observations unless you have gone through this yourself. You can, if they are not accurate.
- xsmasher 7y ago
  https://youtu.be/kGFdRkUEi8U?t=254 https://youtu.be/kGFdRkUEi8U?t=254
- astura 7y ago
  One of my best friends in high school's dad was blind. He was married to her mom. The family was just as normal as could be, I didn't even know he was blind at first.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dominotw 7y ago
> There are plenty of disabled men in functional relationships That would be such an unacceptable response in any other context ( eg: there are plenty of women who are CEOs, there are plenty of <minority> millionaires. Please lose the victim angle). But somehow such cruelty is acceptable towards "incel" men. I personally know someone who is an wheelchair and was abandoned by their SO ( can't really blame her ) after his condition and has ever since been unable to find someone.
- frostburg 7y ago
  Yes, and former house speaker Newt Gingrich famously left his dying wife while branding the GOP as the party of family values, for which everyone should in fact blame him. Anecdotes are useless, do you have any data that suggests that women are more likely than men to leave a partner due to illness?
  - kareninoverseas 7y ago
    These are all good points but they feel very insensitive in tone given that OP has shared something personal; I'm not sure if you realise what you're doing
    - coldtea 7y ago
      When something personal is shared, it becomes something to discuss. Especially when its a larger observation concerning what others, not the person, do.
  - dominotw 7y ago
    > Anecdotes are useless, do you have any data you mean excellent data backed, well laid-out argument like this ? > There are plenty of disabled men in functional relatioships
  - nabnob 7y ago
    Men are more likely to leave their wives due to illness than women are - https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/men-more-likely-to-leave-spouse-with-cancer/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/men-more-likely-to...
ulucs 7y ago
Complaining about the dating scene does not make you an incel. You're being condescending for no reason at all. Nothing he said is related to the usual talking points of incels. Also, men are lonely and this reflects heavily in suicide rates by gender. If someone is lonely, they should be allowed to complain. Casting them away with a label only makes things worse for them. Don't you have empathy? Can't you garner sympathy for a person who is missing out on one of the basic human needs (emotional connection)?
- frostburg 7y ago
  The "dating market" observation is straight out of incel dogma. I have significant sympathy for him missing out on sight (he's probably american, but if he lived in a country with working healthcare I would say that I'm glad that taxes would go towards whatever treatment might help him).
  - throwno 7y ago
    Are you seriously bullying lonely disabled men on a programming forum?
    - frostburg 7y ago
      I don't see how I'm bullying him. I told him that he should not resign himself to being lonely due to his disability, because I think that his understandable distress about his issues might lead him to perceive his situation as bleaker that it is from that standpoint.
      - dang 7y ago
        Telling someone that their situation isn't how they think it is, unless you've taken the time first to establish a real connection with that person—one that they can feel—is likely to come across as a dismissal of their experience and a putdown. I'm sure your intention is to help, but this is a way to hurt rather than help. Bluntly firing facts at someone, assuming they are facts, is definitely not going to do it. The truer the information, the worse the effect: in order to shield themselves from the blow, they will defend against the truth, which moves them further away from a solution. If you want to help, the first question is how to create a felt connection with the other person, which will give them some reason to be open to what you're saying. That's not so easy to do on the internet, though maybe sometimes possible. Words like "I have significant sympathy for him" and "his understandable distress" aren't sufficient though.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dang 7y ago
This crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed on HN. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and edit that kind of thing out of your comments in the future. Your comments in this thread have broken several of the guidelines, most importantly Be kind. It's already a bit dodgy when people respond to other's experience by telling them what's wrong with them, especially when their experience is painful. But blunt one-liners and internet tropes ("lose the incel angle") should be right out. Upping the ante like you did in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21721545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21721545 is seriously not ok. What to do instead? First edit out personal criticisms—they're unlikely to land well. Second, it's always ok to share your own experience. For example, if your comment here was based on experiences or observations of your own, it might have been both interesting and respectful to share some of that.

datingthrowaway 7y ago

Show me some. If you are able to find examples, they will most likely be famous billionaires or actors. However I can point you to an equal number of examples where fame and fortune still didn't cut it. You cannot discount my experiences and observations unless you have gone through this yourself.

ceejayoz 7y ago
The idea that blind people don't/can't date is readily disprovable. Examples of anything will tend to be notable; that doesn't mean non-notable people don't exist. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5ajj7/how-dating-works-when-youre-living-with-blindness https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/j5ajj7/how-dating-works-w... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2017/01/09/what-is-it-like-to-date-while-blind/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/soloish/wp/2017/01/09/wh... You might consider finding a local support group for people who've recently lost their sight.
- scott_s 7y ago
  I think a local support group is an excellent suggestion.
- jimbokun 7y ago
  Those are both written by women about their experiences. Any examples of men successfully dating after starting to lose their eyesight? Or other disabilities? I think I've read other articles in the past about women with disabilities having a relatively easy time dating, but men with disabilities having a lot more difficulty.
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Two men (one with glaucoma, which generally starts in adulthood) are quoted in https://metro.co.uk/2017/11/08/what-its-like-to-date-when-youre-blind-7041772/ https://metro.co.uk/2017/11/08/what-its-like-to-date-when-yo... - as you might expect, "non-notable recently blind men dating" isn't a super easy thing to Google for. The first mentions dating within the blind community, which would likely make things substantially easier on both parties. I've seen enough weird parings and horrible people in relationships to feel quite comfortable with the statement "blind isn't a guaranteed deal-breaker". I do suspect the recency matters a lot - grief after loss can be all-consuming and take time to come to terms with. Side note: My spouse is disabled, so I'm also quite comfortable with the concept of dating someone with a disability.
    - jimbokun 7y ago
      Hey, thanks for the link! Good to see concrete examples.
    - avgDev 7y ago
      I have an invisible illness, after seeing more physicians that I can count. The conclusion appears to be some neurological issues with connective tissue problems which result in chronic pain and fatigue most likely caused by antibiotic I took 7 years as symptoms started right after my allergic reaction. I got married after symptoms began. It was not easy but life doesn't stop. I'm still coming to terms and searching for something that works meds/supplements/physical therapy. However, I don't considered myself disabled even though this is quite limiting and I require more rest. I think once one accepts your alignment and find ways of still being a member of the society, one will have a much better luck dating. I think the depression that these problems bring is just really hard to deal with and affects people around us.
tristor 7y ago
I am not blind, but I do have a condition which causes my eyesight to get progressively worse (luckily on an elongated timespan). I by happenstance ended up becoming best friends with a blind student when I was in college during a period where I was trying to learn about and understand my condition. That introduced me to organizations like the NFB, and I even attended some regional NFB conferences. I'd definitely recommend you get involved in blindness advocacy groups in your area. What I found might surprise you. Blind people have normal relationships just like anyone else, and conferences tend to be a hotbed of dating and connection-making beyond just the topic of the day. My best friend is happily married now for more than 10 years, and I am in a long-term relationship coming up on my 2nd year anniversary. I've since met multiple blind people in the tech industry and found most of them to be successful in their career and in their relationships. I'd heavily recommend you get involved in local groups and also to go out and do whatever activities interest you. Most people are more accepting than you might imagine. There's a lot of things that might be difficult due to visual acuity, but people are understanding are willing to give you space to be part of the group. For instance, I've found that board gaming and D&D are very popular activities with the geekier folks I know in the blind community, and for those who are partially sighted using assistive technology like magnification cameras on their phone or similar makes these things possible to do without significant impairment. You'll be more likely to meet someone you're compatible with if you get out of the house and go participate in mixed gender hobbies. You may not want to hear this, but it's the truest observation I've made. Those folks who are struggling in the blind community have often put themselves in a situation to struggle. There's pervasive negative feedback loops when someone becomes disabled, especially if they become disabled later in life. It's easy to become hopeless, and it's easy for your own insecurities about your disability to sabotage the relationships you'd otherwise have, both professional and romantic. In the words of my best friend, "You're blind. So what? So am I. Go make something of yourself." Don't get fooled into throwing yourself a pity party. Instead go do the things necessary in your life to be an attractive romantic partner, and you will find that your disability is not the impediment you imagine. Romance is about emotional connection, first and foremost.
coldtea 7y ago
>Show me some. If you are able to find examples, they will most likely be famous billionaires or actors. Are you saying this seriously? Go to a local club for blind people, or some club for people with some other disability, and you'll find many living perfectly normal lives, in relationships, etc. You will also find several who don't have a relationship (which also true in abled people). But it's in no way like you need to be a famous artist/billionaire etc to be blind/disabled/etc and have a relationship. Not even close. >You cannot discount my experiences and observations unless you have gone through this yourself. You can, if they are not accurate.
xsmasher 7y ago
https://youtu.be/kGFdRkUEi8U?t=254 https://youtu.be/kGFdRkUEi8U?t=254
astura 7y ago
One of my best friends in high school's dad was blind. He was married to her mom. The family was just as normal as could be, I didn't even know he was blind at first.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dominotw 7y ago

> There are plenty of disabled men in functional relationships That would be such an unacceptable response in any other context ( eg: there are plenty of women who are CEOs, there are plenty of <minority> millionaires. Please lose the victim angle). But somehow such cruelty is acceptable towards "incel" men. I personally know someone who is an wheelchair and was abandoned by their SO ( can't really blame her ) after his condition and has ever since been unable to find someone.

frostburg 7y ago
Yes, and former house speaker Newt Gingrich famously left his dying wife while branding the GOP as the party of family values, for which everyone should in fact blame him. Anecdotes are useless, do you have any data that suggests that women are more likely than men to leave a partner due to illness?
- kareninoverseas 7y ago
  These are all good points but they feel very insensitive in tone given that OP has shared something personal; I'm not sure if you realise what you're doing
  - coldtea 7y ago
    When something personal is shared, it becomes something to discuss. Especially when its a larger observation concerning what others, not the person, do.
- dominotw 7y ago
  > Anecdotes are useless, do you have any data you mean excellent data backed, well laid-out argument like this ? > There are plenty of disabled men in functional relatioships
- nabnob 7y ago
  Men are more likely to leave their wives due to illness than women are - https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/men-more-likely-to-leave-spouse-with-cancer/ https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/men-more-likely-to...

ulucs 7y ago

Complaining about the dating scene does not make you an incel. You're being condescending for no reason at all. Nothing he said is related to the usual talking points of incels. Also, men are lonely and this reflects heavily in suicide rates by gender. If someone is lonely, they should be allowed to complain. Casting them away with a label only makes things worse for them. Don't you have empathy? Can't you garner sympathy for a person who is missing out on one of the basic human needs (emotional connection)?

frostburg 7y ago
The "dating market" observation is straight out of incel dogma. I have significant sympathy for him missing out on sight (he's probably american, but if he lived in a country with working healthcare I would say that I'm glad that taxes would go towards whatever treatment might help him).
- throwno 7y ago
  Are you seriously bullying lonely disabled men on a programming forum?
  - frostburg 7y ago
    I don't see how I'm bullying him. I told him that he should not resign himself to being lonely due to his disability, because I think that his understandable distress about his issues might lead him to perceive his situation as bleaker that it is from that standpoint.
    - dang 7y ago
      Telling someone that their situation isn't how they think it is, unless you've taken the time first to establish a real connection with that person—one that they can feel—is likely to come across as a dismissal of their experience and a putdown. I'm sure your intention is to help, but this is a way to hurt rather than help. Bluntly firing facts at someone, assuming they are facts, is definitely not going to do it. The truer the information, the worse the effect: in order to shield themselves from the blow, they will defend against the truth, which moves them further away from a solution. If you want to help, the first question is how to create a felt connection with the other person, which will give them some reason to be open to what you're saying. That's not so easy to do on the internet, though maybe sometimes possible. Words like "I have significant sympathy for him" and "his understandable distress" aren't sufficient though.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

dang 7y ago

This crosses into personal attack, which is not allowed on HN. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and edit that kind of thing out of your comments in the future. Your comments in this thread have broken several of the guidelines, most importantly Be kind. It's already a bit dodgy when people respond to other's experience by telling them what's wrong with them, especially when their experience is painful. But blunt one-liners and internet tropes ("lose the incel angle") should be right out. Upping the ante like you did in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21721545 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21721545 is seriously not ok. What to do instead? First edit out personal criticisms—they're unlikely to land well. Second, it's always ok to share your own experience. For example, if your comment here was based on experiences or observations of your own, it might have been both interesting and respectful to share some of that.