7 ms·

I agree, but at the same time an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of treatment. 40% of American adults, including the woman featured here, are obese. You ca

I agree, but at the same time an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of treatment. 40% of American adults, including the woman featured here, are obese. You can't just eat 3000 calories of junk food a day and expect the doctor to "fix it"

OnlineGladiator 7y ago
> You can't just eat 3000 calories of junk food a day and expect the doctor to "fix it" What you're saying is true, but that's not what everyone believes. If you watch any episode of My 600 Pound Life, you will realize just how unwilling some of these people are to help themselves because it's hard work (and many people featured on the show die as a result). Yes, those are obviously extreme examples, but they're all extremely well documented. I absolutely agree we should focus on taking care of ourselves before it leads to enormous health issues, but weirdly it doesn't seem the US healthcare system is designed for that.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago
  > If you watch any episode of My 600 Pound Life, you will realize just how unwilling some of these people are to help themselves Please don't use point-and-gawk trash TV shows to make generalizations about the world. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9al-mpqXjc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9al-mpqXjc
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    You may disagree with the presentation, but it's still a documentary about real people's lives. If you watch the show you'll realize it's very sympathetic to the people suffering from obesity. I agree (as mentioned originally) these are extreme cases though.
    - CharlesColeman 7y ago
      And a Potemkin village still has real people in it. The point is: TLC [1] reality TV programs exist to entertain. They'll choose the most entertaining examples, not the most typical or illustrative. That bias means that's it's especially problematic to use them to show how "these people are." [1] The network of "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" fame
      - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        I agree with you we shouldn't generalize, but ironically you're doing the same thing about television shows. If you've watched the show, what do you find disagreeable about it? If you haven't watched it, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge. Anyway, I concede it's a bad talking point for the point I was making. EDIT: On second thought, my original comment is such a tangent I probably should not have made it. While I may disagree with some of the details of your reasoning, I agree with your overall point.
  - fortran77 7y ago
    I watch that show. It's one of my favorites. Maybe it's beneath your level of intellect--I presume you're a 10x'er who only watches PBS--but I've learned a lot about the super-obese and their challenges from this very sensitive show.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  > but weirdly it doesn't seem the US healthcare system is designed for that That's true. Your average interaction with a physician in the US to a 20 minute conversation while they fill out some forms in Epic, barely paying attention, then kick you out of their office as quickly as possible. A month or more later the bureaucratic machines of both hospital and insurance finally get around to sending you a bill for $250+.
pugio 7y ago
Fixing healthcare would (by definition, IMO) alter health system incentives. If the government were responsible for all citizen's health, AND it wasn't too heavily influenced by lobby groups, it would make a lot more sense to focus on prophylactic measures, such an promoting healthy eating. Doctors should be paid for how healthy their patients are, not for continuing treatments of the chronically ill.
- zentiggr 7y ago
  > not for continuing treatments of the chronically ill So my rheumatologist gets nothing for continuing to monitor and advise and prescribe treatment for my arthritis? Which isn't exactly something I can willpower away... I don't like you.
  - pugio 7y ago
    Sorry, typed that first bit out on my phone and ended up with a truncated thought. I was mostly referring to the way current financial incentives focus on _treatment_ versus prevention or cure. In truth the change I was hoping for would happen at a slightly higher level than an individual doctor. More "health system" or municipal healthcare group. I wasn't suggesting "willpower", nor making claims about your particular situation. I have observed cases where doctors are more willing to prescribe ongoing medications for chronic conditions, rather than investigating more holistic solutions to help alleviate symptoms. Arthritis symptoms can often be greatly reduced by diet or lifestyle changes. If your doctor helps you test and implement those – great! I've seen many cases where they don't, and my point is that they're not incentivized to do so.
WaylonKenning 7y ago
If only she had the time to do meal prep, outside of the four hours a day she takes to commute.
- basch 7y ago
  50% employee discount. McDonalds is a great place to eat healthy if you so choose. Healthful may be boring but its available.
  - stevenwoo 7y ago
    I looked at the USA menu and there are only a handful of healthy options (the salads, and possibly custom egg only dishes via the all day breakfast menu and talking to the line cook) https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu.html and that's without the salad dressing, were this the only diet available it lacks any substantial quantity of fruit, dark green veggies, fatty fish, whole grains/nuts off the top of my head that are usually recommended as items in a healthy balanced diet, the salads are also mainly iceberg lettuce which is not that great nutritionally. Also, not sure what would fit into her choices as diabetic.
    - basch 7y ago
      Chicken Nuggets, Egg White Delight, Grilled Snack Wrap, Sausage Burrito, Egg McMuffin, Sausage McMuffin (w egg too), Fruit and Maple Oatmeal, Fruit n Yogurt Parfait, Strawberry Banana Smoothie, Mango Pineapple Smoothie, Gogurt, Fruit slices, Artisan Grilled Chicken Sandwich, Grilled Chicken BLT Sandwich, Southwest Grilled Chicken Salad, Bacon Ranch Grilled Chicken Salad, regular hamburger, coffee. We can leave Filet-O-Fish and Fries in the more debatable categories but the fish and potatoes themselves are nutritious. It's also as much portion size and controlling intake of fries and soda as it is about the food items themselves. Adding a large coke to any meal is probably worse than the food itself. 80g of sugar with no nutrition or fiber. I'll give you that its a low source of nuts and unbreaded fish. But if we are talking about working at McDonalds and not having meal prep time, that could be supplemented by bags of almonds, pistachios, peanuts, cashews, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, and cans of tuna, salmon, and sardines at home. That leaves dark veggies. Their bacon ranch salad says its "romaine, baby spinach, baby kale, red leaf lettuce, ribbon-cut carrots and grape tomatoes." Youd probably want to supplement some cooked greens at home. Being able to buy the above food at 50% off would, imho, be a great foundation to a healthy diet, if you can control portion and avoid temptation.
outworlder 7y ago
> 40% of American adults, including the woman featured here, are obese This is severely lacking in empathy. You know WHY they are obese, especially including the woman featured here? Junk food is dirt cheap. When you work your ass off for two weeks and have all of $200 dollars to show for it, you are not going to be cooking healthy foods and free range Chicken eggs. You are going to get the cheap stuff, the highly caloric, highly processed stuff. And guess what, she works at McDonalds, which gives employees some food every 5 hours worked. Or if you don't work there, you can hit a Taco Bell and fullfill your hunger with $5. $5 may be enough to get ingredients to cook a better meal, but again, this person works her ass off in multiple jobs and has a long commute by bus.
- threatofrain 7y ago
  I don't disagree with empathy, but I definitely push back on the idea that McDonalds is cheap. People will always go to the grocery store and it's very hard to beat rice, beans, eggs, and ethnic veggies. That makes the cost and time proposition of McDonalds only okay at the right time of day.
  - outworlder 7y ago
    > I definitely push back on the idea that McDonalds is cheap If you work there, it is. But I was talking about Taco Bell for non McDonalds workers, which IS cheap. Your groceries list again is assuming there is enough time(and energy) to prepare the food.
    - bradley_taunt 7y ago
      I absolutely understand where you're trying to come from, but I think it seems like a bit of a stretch. Saying lack of time to prepare a healthy meal is a valid reason for poor eating habits is a weak excuse. Pan frying an egg and some veggies (using food item examples above) takes less than 5 minutes.
      - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
SolaceQuantum 7y ago
Where is she supposed to get the energy, time, and mental resources to lose weight? Energy to exercise, time to self-educate, mental resources to maintain discipline, emotional health to value herself enough when the world doesn't value her?
- zbentley 7y ago
  This is very very important. Many people in these comments are arguing that there are choices that she could make to help her situation. That's true. But some kinds of conditions (lack of sleep, lack of time to yourself/to think, physical fatigue, fear of reprisal from most people--employers and colleagues--in your life) make choice itself into a limited resource. Could you technically decide to move/work out/fix whatever? Sure. Are you likely make that choice, be able to make that choice, or want to make that choice if your day-to-day is as depleting as what is described? No. Barring a few outliers, the ability to choose is suppressed for people in bad situations like this.
AtlasBarfed 7y ago
I get the fat and obese are frustrating, but you are victim blaming in the context of a US that lets unfettered advertising and product pushing of unhealthy food, healthcare, support, education, and lifestyles. If economics and policy actually worked, there would be regulatory feedbacks, but not in 'murica
- papreclip 7y ago
  Even if it's not her fault (which I actually agree it isn't), my post still holds true
- burgerzzz 7y ago
  So advertising and marketing are to blame for people overeating? At some point you have to take responsibility for your decisions and the consequences. I don't think it's victim blaming to point out that something that is entirely within their control.
  - etagobla 7y ago
    Here's a thought experiment. Imagine if every fatty acid in your gut is contained in a cell that will independently try its best to maintain homeostasis. When it's under stress -- from any source -- it will secrete hormones. Now imagine an anorexic woman who recovers, but she overcorrects and ends up overweight in the eyes of her anorexic friends. They shame her for overeating and she tries to eat less, which puts her adipose cells under stress. Is it possible that she'd keep gaining weight from the stress of undereating? If it's impossible, how do you know? If it's not impossible, should we blame anorexics the same way we blame people with habits that you think are bad?

OnlineGladiator 7y ago

> You can't just eat 3000 calories of junk food a day and expect the doctor to "fix it" What you're saying is true, but that's not what everyone believes. If you watch any episode of My 600 Pound Life, you will realize just how unwilling some of these people are to help themselves because it's hard work (and many people featured on the show die as a result). Yes, those are obviously extreme examples, but they're all extremely well documented. I absolutely agree we should focus on taking care of ourselves before it leads to enormous health issues, but weirdly it doesn't seem the US healthcare system is designed for that.

CharlesColeman 7y ago
> If you watch any episode of My 600 Pound Life, you will realize just how unwilling some of these people are to help themselves Please don't use point-and-gawk trash TV shows to make generalizations about the world. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9al-mpqXjc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9al-mpqXjc
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  You may disagree with the presentation, but it's still a documentary about real people's lives. If you watch the show you'll realize it's very sympathetic to the people suffering from obesity. I agree (as mentioned originally) these are extreme cases though.
  - CharlesColeman 7y ago
    And a Potemkin village still has real people in it. The point is: TLC [1] reality TV programs exist to entertain. They'll choose the most entertaining examples, not the most typical or illustrative. That bias means that's it's especially problematic to use them to show how "these people are." [1] The network of "Here Comes Honey Boo Boo" fame
    - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
      I agree with you we shouldn't generalize, but ironically you're doing the same thing about television shows. If you've watched the show, what do you find disagreeable about it? If you haven't watched it, maybe you shouldn't be so quick to judge. Anyway, I concede it's a bad talking point for the point I was making. EDIT: On second thought, my original comment is such a tangent I probably should not have made it. While I may disagree with some of the details of your reasoning, I agree with your overall point.
- fortran77 7y ago
  I watch that show. It's one of my favorites. Maybe it's beneath your level of intellect--I presume you're a 10x'er who only watches PBS--but I've learned a lot about the super-obese and their challenges from this very sensitive show.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
> but weirdly it doesn't seem the US healthcare system is designed for that That's true. Your average interaction with a physician in the US to a 20 minute conversation while they fill out some forms in Epic, barely paying attention, then kick you out of their office as quickly as possible. A month or more later the bureaucratic machines of both hospital and insurance finally get around to sending you a bill for $250+.

pugio 7y ago

Fixing healthcare would (by definition, IMO) alter health system incentives. If the government were responsible for all citizen's health, AND it wasn't too heavily influenced by lobby groups, it would make a lot more sense to focus on prophylactic measures, such an promoting healthy eating. Doctors should be paid for how healthy their patients are, not for continuing treatments of the chronically ill.

zentiggr 7y ago
> not for continuing treatments of the chronically ill So my rheumatologist gets nothing for continuing to monitor and advise and prescribe treatment for my arthritis? Which isn't exactly something I can willpower away... I don't like you.
- pugio 7y ago
  Sorry, typed that first bit out on my phone and ended up with a truncated thought. I was mostly referring to the way current financial incentives focus on _treatment_ versus prevention or cure. In truth the change I was hoping for would happen at a slightly higher level than an individual doctor. More "health system" or municipal healthcare group. I wasn't suggesting "willpower", nor making claims about your particular situation. I have observed cases where doctors are more willing to prescribe ongoing medications for chronic conditions, rather than investigating more holistic solutions to help alleviate symptoms. Arthritis symptoms can often be greatly reduced by diet or lifestyle changes. If your doctor helps you test and implement those – great! I've seen many cases where they don't, and my point is that they're not incentivized to do so.

WaylonKenning 7y ago

If only she had the time to do meal prep, outside of the four hours a day she takes to commute.

basch 7y ago
50% employee discount. McDonalds is a great place to eat healthy if you so choose. Healthful may be boring but its available.
- stevenwoo 7y ago
  I looked at the USA menu and there are only a handful of healthy options (the salads, and possibly custom egg only dishes via the all day breakfast menu and talking to the line cook) https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/full-menu.html and that's without the salad dressing, were this the only diet available it lacks any substantial quantity of fruit, dark green veggies, fatty fish, whole grains/nuts off the top of my head that are usually recommended as items in a healthy balanced diet, the salads are also mainly iceberg lettuce which is not that great nutritionally. Also, not sure what would fit into her choices as diabetic.
  - basch 7y ago
    Chicken Nuggets, Egg White Delight, Grilled Snack Wrap, Sausage Burrito, Egg McMuffin, Sausage McMuffin (w egg too), Fruit and Maple Oatmeal, Fruit n Yogurt Parfait, Strawberry Banana Smoothie, Mango Pineapple Smoothie, Gogurt, Fruit slices, Artisan Grilled Chicken Sandwich, Grilled Chicken BLT Sandwich, Southwest Grilled Chicken Salad, Bacon Ranch Grilled Chicken Salad, regular hamburger, coffee. We can leave Filet-O-Fish and Fries in the more debatable categories but the fish and potatoes themselves are nutritious. It's also as much portion size and controlling intake of fries and soda as it is about the food items themselves. Adding a large coke to any meal is probably worse than the food itself. 80g of sugar with no nutrition or fiber. I'll give you that its a low source of nuts and unbreaded fish. But if we are talking about working at McDonalds and not having meal prep time, that could be supplemented by bags of almonds, pistachios, peanuts, cashews, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, and cans of tuna, salmon, and sardines at home. That leaves dark veggies. Their bacon ranch salad says its "romaine, baby spinach, baby kale, red leaf lettuce, ribbon-cut carrots and grape tomatoes." Youd probably want to supplement some cooked greens at home. Being able to buy the above food at 50% off would, imho, be a great foundation to a healthy diet, if you can control portion and avoid temptation.

outworlder 7y ago

> 40% of American adults, including the woman featured here, are obese This is severely lacking in empathy. You know WHY they are obese, especially including the woman featured here? Junk food is dirt cheap. When you work your ass off for two weeks and have all of $200 dollars to show for it, you are not going to be cooking healthy foods and free range Chicken eggs. You are going to get the cheap stuff, the highly caloric, highly processed stuff. And guess what, she works at McDonalds, which gives employees some food every 5 hours worked. Or if you don't work there, you can hit a Taco Bell and fullfill your hunger with $5. $5 may be enough to get ingredients to cook a better meal, but again, this person works her ass off in multiple jobs and has a long commute by bus.

threatofrain 7y ago
I don't disagree with empathy, but I definitely push back on the idea that McDonalds is cheap. People will always go to the grocery store and it's very hard to beat rice, beans, eggs, and ethnic veggies. That makes the cost and time proposition of McDonalds only okay at the right time of day.
- outworlder 7y ago
  > I definitely push back on the idea that McDonalds is cheap If you work there, it is. But I was talking about Taco Bell for non McDonalds workers, which IS cheap. Your groceries list again is assuming there is enough time(and energy) to prepare the food.
  - bradley_taunt 7y ago
    I absolutely understand where you're trying to come from, but I think it seems like a bit of a stretch. Saying lack of time to prepare a healthy meal is a valid reason for poor eating habits is a weak excuse. Pan frying an egg and some veggies (using food item examples above) takes less than 5 minutes.
    - SolaceQuantum 7y ago

SolaceQuantum 7y ago

Where is she supposed to get the energy, time, and mental resources to lose weight? Energy to exercise, time to self-educate, mental resources to maintain discipline, emotional health to value herself enough when the world doesn't value her?

zbentley 7y ago
This is very very important. Many people in these comments are arguing that there are choices that she could make to help her situation. That's true. But some kinds of conditions (lack of sleep, lack of time to yourself/to think, physical fatigue, fear of reprisal from most people--employers and colleagues--in your life) make choice itself into a limited resource. Could you technically decide to move/work out/fix whatever? Sure. Are you likely make that choice, be able to make that choice, or want to make that choice if your day-to-day is as depleting as what is described? No. Barring a few outliers, the ability to choose is suppressed for people in bad situations like this.

AtlasBarfed 7y ago

I get the fat and obese are frustrating, but you are victim blaming in the context of a US that lets unfettered advertising and product pushing of unhealthy food, healthcare, support, education, and lifestyles. If economics and policy actually worked, there would be regulatory feedbacks, but not in 'murica

papreclip 7y ago
Even if it's not her fault (which I actually agree it isn't), my post still holds true
burgerzzz 7y ago
So advertising and marketing are to blame for people overeating? At some point you have to take responsibility for your decisions and the consequences. I don't think it's victim blaming to point out that something that is entirely within their control.
- etagobla 7y ago
  Here's a thought experiment. Imagine if every fatty acid in your gut is contained in a cell that will independently try its best to maintain homeostasis. When it's under stress -- from any source -- it will secrete hormones. Now imagine an anorexic woman who recovers, but she overcorrects and ends up overweight in the eyes of her anorexic friends. They shame her for overeating and she tries to eat less, which puts her adipose cells under stress. Is it possible that she'd keep gaining weight from the stress of undereating? If it's impossible, how do you know? If it's not impossible, should we blame anorexics the same way we blame people with habits that you think are bad?