4 ms·

Don't be silly. Plenty of things are apolitical.

by LiNeXT 7y ago

aalleavitch 7y ago
Pretending you have nothing to do with the consequences of your actions doesn't make it so. Saying you're "apolitical" only means that you bury your head in the sand regarding the very real political consequences of your operations.
- LiNeXT 7y ago
  Claiming that everything is political doesn't make it so.
  - aalleavitch 7y ago
    And claiming that something is apolitical doesn't make it so. Are you going to present an actual argument? The reality of the world is that no company operates in a vacuum. If a political organization gains power it wouldn't have had because you willingly entered into a contract with it, you are absolutely responsible for that. Pretending otherwise is just trying to absolve yourself of the real harm that you have done.
    - LiNeXT 7y ago
      It's software. What you or anyone else does with it is your own responsibility.
      - aalleavitch 7y ago
        "Look, I don't explode the atomic bombs I just make and sell them"? If people were more cognizant of the effects the things they made put out into the world, we'd be living in a better one. Claiming you have no responsibility doesn't absolve you of anything.
- psymal 7y ago
  So it's impossible to design a politically neutral organisation? Depressing.
  - aalleavitch 7y ago
    "Politically neutral" is a nonsense concept. You can make a politically flexible organization, you can make an organization that tries to operate orthogonally to the existing political powers in the world, but if you do something that has a real effect on the world, some component of that effect is by nature political. You can try to balance yourself in the overton window, but even that is a decisively centrist position.
    - LiNeXT 7y ago
      > but if you do something that has a real effect on the world, some component of that effect is by nature political No.
astrodust 7y ago
Selling software to a company running concentration camps has consequences. There's nothing "apolitical" about that.
- LiNeXT 7y ago
  > Nothing is "apolitical". Don't change the topic. This is the sweeping assertion I was addressing.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - LiNeXT 7y ago
    This isn't difficult. You claimed that "nothing is apolitical." That's an entirely different statement than grandstanding on this particular issue by invoking "concentration camps." Plenty of things are apolitical.
drewbug01 7y ago
Please follow HN guidelines and refrain from calling names: > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Personally, I don't find the view that "nothing is apolitical" to be silly.
gowld 7y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Clarifying that "all" should be "most" is a good contribution. Writing off the comment with an insult is not. Especially if you don't even offer an example of one of the "plenty of things" to justify your claim. In a casual forum, people use casual language, like using "all" for "most". Context matters, as when the comment is in response to saying something isn't political by an overly-narrow definition of "political"
- LiNeXT 7y ago
  > Especially if you don't even offer an example of one of the "plenty of things" to justify your claim. I would posit that common sense obviated the need to justify this particular claim. As in, performing your morning dump rituals, for example, isn't a "political" act. Does that really have to be spelled out?
SkyBelow 7y ago
While I agree, because I can look at a tree and say the tree is apolitical, who you do business with is not apolitical. At the very core is the question of 'do I agree with this person enough to do business with them'. That is a politically charged question and has to be answered with a yes to do business with someone. When I buy coffee (or chocolate), I make the choice that even though I am not sure the coffee doesn't involve slave labor, I am okay with buying it. Perhaps if I'm completely unaware of the slavery involved or the ineffectiveness of no-slavery certification I can claim ignorance, but that lasts only until someone informs me. So while I disagree with what they were literally saying (because of that tree), I think the more limited message they were (at least in my opinion) meaning has far more truth to it.
- notatoad 7y ago
  Trees are strongly aligned with environmentalist causes.
notatoad 7y ago
Plenty of things are apolitical, but when your customers are polticians, political parties, governments, and government contactors then nothing is apolitical. any organization or person with a capacity to be aware of politics and the consequences of their actions is political.

Don't be silly. Plenty of things are apolitical.

by LiNeXT 7y ago

Don't be silly. Plenty of things are apolitical.

Pretending you have nothing to do with the consequences of your actions doesn't make it so. Saying you're "apolitical" only means that you bury your head in the sand regarding the very real political consequences of your operations.

LiNeXT 7y ago
Claiming that everything is political doesn't make it so.
- aalleavitch 7y ago
  And claiming that something is apolitical doesn't make it so. Are you going to present an actual argument? The reality of the world is that no company operates in a vacuum. If a political organization gains power it wouldn't have had because you willingly entered into a contract with it, you are absolutely responsible for that. Pretending otherwise is just trying to absolve yourself of the real harm that you have done.
  - LiNeXT 7y ago
    It's software. What you or anyone else does with it is your own responsibility.
    - aalleavitch 7y ago
      "Look, I don't explode the atomic bombs I just make and sell them"? If people were more cognizant of the effects the things they made put out into the world, we'd be living in a better one. Claiming you have no responsibility doesn't absolve you of anything.
psymal 7y ago
So it's impossible to design a politically neutral organisation? Depressing.
- aalleavitch 7y ago
  "Politically neutral" is a nonsense concept. You can make a politically flexible organization, you can make an organization that tries to operate orthogonally to the existing political powers in the world, but if you do something that has a real effect on the world, some component of that effect is by nature political. You can try to balance yourself in the overton window, but even that is a decisively centrist position.
  - LiNeXT 7y ago
    > but if you do something that has a real effect on the world, some component of that effect is by nature political No.

astrodust 7y ago

Selling software to a company running concentration camps has consequences. There's nothing "apolitical" about that.

LiNeXT 7y ago
> Nothing is "apolitical". Don't change the topic. This is the sweeping assertion I was addressing.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- LiNeXT 7y ago
  This isn't difficult. You claimed that "nothing is apolitical." That's an entirely different statement than grandstanding on this particular issue by invoking "concentration camps." Plenty of things are apolitical.

drewbug01 7y ago

Please follow HN guidelines and refrain from calling names: > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." Personally, I don't find the view that "nothing is apolitical" to be silly.

gowld 7y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html > Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. Clarifying that "all" should be "most" is a good contribution. Writing off the comment with an insult is not. Especially if you don't even offer an example of one of the "plenty of things" to justify your claim. In a casual forum, people use casual language, like using "all" for "most". Context matters, as when the comment is in response to saying something isn't political by an overly-narrow definition of "political"

LiNeXT 7y ago
> Especially if you don't even offer an example of one of the "plenty of things" to justify your claim. I would posit that common sense obviated the need to justify this particular claim. As in, performing your morning dump rituals, for example, isn't a "political" act. Does that really have to be spelled out?

SkyBelow 7y ago

While I agree, because I can look at a tree and say the tree is apolitical, who you do business with is not apolitical. At the very core is the question of 'do I agree with this person enough to do business with them'. That is a politically charged question and has to be answered with a yes to do business with someone. When I buy coffee (or chocolate), I make the choice that even though I am not sure the coffee doesn't involve slave labor, I am okay with buying it. Perhaps if I'm completely unaware of the slavery involved or the ineffectiveness of no-slavery certification I can claim ignorance, but that lasts only until someone informs me. So while I disagree with what they were literally saying (because of that tree), I think the more limited message they were (at least in my opinion) meaning has far more truth to it.

notatoad 7y ago
Trees are strongly aligned with environmentalist causes.

notatoad 7y ago

Plenty of things are apolitical, but when your customers are polticians, political parties, governments, and government contactors then nothing is apolitical. any organization or person with a capacity to be aware of politics and the consequences of their actions is political.