7 ms·

Selling Juicer

152 points by timschu 7y ago

tomlagier 7y ago
Really interesting post, thanks for highlighting all of the inflection points in your journey to sale. Inspired me to think really hard about what pain points I have when I freelance.
tunesmith 7y ago
I wonder if there are common best practices on throttling growth for a lifestyle company or bootstrapped startup? I guess it can be as simple as turning off new registrations for periods of time or only allowing invitations at arbitrary times. Has this worked well for any SaaS businesses? Once you hit your financial goals, it could help forestall burnout, but I suppose there's a lot of risk there too - if there's enough unmet demand, someone could replace you.
- trevyn 7y ago
  1) Turn off any explicit advertising/marketing/drip/promotion systems, even if they’re automated and profitable — they’re hacks that distort your view of the product. Let people sign up, but organic word-of-mouth only. 2) Consider a more relaxed pace of life. Travel widely. The startup world is a microcosm, and if you haven’t personally experienced and understood how people live outside of it for several months or years, it’s easy to overwork yourself and think it’s completely normal. There’s a reason “digital nomad” is a thing — a recurring story is that people try it out on a whim or by chance and then get absolutely hooked. 3) If you still want to invest time, what are you personally interested in building into the product? I think the traditional “talk to your customers” is great for staying grounded and understanding pain points, but you can get stuck in a local maximum. As an engineer/product person, you have a unique insight into what is technically possible in your space, which new technological capabilities will become relevant as time progresses, and the general direction of the market over longer time spans. This is an opportunity to be a long-term thinker and focus on building features or related products that are specifically targeted at highly technical early adopters, so that by the time the idea becomes mainstream, you’ll have a substantial head-start. Be a craftsman and use your skill to more deeply address the problem space. If you’ve hit sustainability, are as lean as most bootstrapped lifestyle companies, and churn is not a major issue in general, I think the risk of being replaced by new contenders is actually a very slow-motion risk — people are not so good at changing their habits. :-)
- inapis 7y ago
  Adding a significantly high price barrier is enough to arrest growth of most B2C Saas companies. I’m not sure you’d even have a digital nomad life style if you’re running a B2B SaaS, especially if your product is expensive.
natrik 7y ago
Great article. Important takeaways for me - `Being employed by someone is by its very definition, an exploitative relationship, even if your job is great. Your employer can only afford to hire you if you make more money than you cost (again, with a few exceptions of course) so no matter what you are getting paid less than your true value.` `It’s much, much easier to get to the top, or near the top of the wordpress plugin directory than it is google (essentially it’s making sure the description of your plugin has the right keywords, and then you’ll be there essentially instantly).`
- Benjammer 7y ago
  >Your employer can only afford to hire you if you make more money than you cost (again, with a few exceptions of course) so no matter what you are getting paid less than your true value. This seems like a somewhat simplistic way to view a company. The amount you "make" for the company isn't the same thing as your "true value," because that isn't a real concept. The value you are able to provide changes based on context and objectives. It's leverage in the moment, not "value" in some inherent sense. Do you think every employee in the world should be able to just quit their job and suddenly realize the same return without changing their costs at all?
  - grrowl 7y ago
    I code, and probably get paid less than I output in value; but what I output would not be nearly as valuable if not for the others that contribute to the company. My boss, having created the initial value, and other investors and shareholders take the overage.
    - jcims 7y ago
      This is so important. I used to actually hate the sales team at my very first 'real job'...so much that any time I had to go to the bathroom I would walk down two flights of stairs to pollute the air on their floor. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anyway, this dislike came from their tendency to stretch everything and over-commit to get a sale. It ended up souring my opinion of the entire profession and I had zero respect for it...until I tried it myself. I went through this process a few times until I really came to an understanding of how many different personalities and proclivities it takes to successfully run any company of appreciable size.
leetrout 7y ago
I would love to have some reference to selling amount. It sounds like it was easily over $1m but was it 2-4? 5-10? Very curious.
- dabeeeenster 7y ago
  5x revenue is very good going in this sort of scenario
  - leetrout 7y ago
    Right, that is in the article, but there is no mention of their revenue unless I missed something.
Thorentis 7y ago
As somebody thinking of starting a SaaS soon, this was a great and insightful read. The one thing this does confirm for me, is that the best ideas are those that solve problems you already have (or create tools or services you wish you had, etc.) Well done!
robocat 7y ago
> Being employed by someone is by its very definition, an exploitative relationship, even if your job is great. Your employer can only afford to hire you if you make more money than you cost [] so no matter what, you are getting paid less than your true value. Weird fallacy. If I am paid to dig ditches in Haiti, is my true value different from digging ditches in Monaco? The amount someone brings in depends on their context: what organisation, what country, what city. We don’t have a “true value”.
- geomark 7y ago
  It's a hoot when you hear someone say something like that. I mean, nobody works in a vacuum. The boss used her capital and labor to put in place all the resources that enable you to work, and has to use his capital and labor to maintain a going concern, and deserves to earn something for their labor as well as a return on risked capital which is a risk you as the worker don't take. I'm pretty happy to take a salary and go home at the end of the day without having to worry about losing my entire investment due to the vagaries of business or an employee's bad attitude.
  - puranjay 7y ago
    People also underestimate the sheer legal and regulatory BS you have to deal with as an employer. The employee doesn't have to worry about keeping books, filing quarterly taxes, or dealing with any legal entanglements (and for larger companies, there are a lot of legal entanglements). Employees are insulated from all this work, which requires, not just manpower, but also a ton of mental space.
    - cik 7y ago
      Exactly. One of my more frustrating lessons was the sheer amount of time I had to spend on Government related activities whilst running my previous business. I was already a Libertarian going in, but it only served to entrench my stance further. Even when you outsource those things to accountants, lawyers, payroll company, HR, etc... you quickly come to realize how much time, money and effort goes into the cost of maintaining government-related compliance.
blaisio 7y ago
This article is much higher quality than most of the stuff that gets to the front page. Awesome stuff.
amitdangerpatel 7y ago
Entertaining anecdote that didn’t make it into the blog post: people sometimes mistook us (juicer.io) for Juicero, you know, the infamous $400 machine that squeezed a juice packet. The day the Juicero news blew up, we got some especially hateful posts on our Facebook page.
- pteraspidomorph 7y ago
  That's what I thought I was going to read about before clicking through to the article! (I didn't quite remember the thing's name.)
- tonyarkles 7y ago
  Heh, I saw a comment the other day about Juicero that I particularly loved: > Juicero wasn’t designed to squeeze juice out of packets of fruit. Juicero was designed to squeeze money out of VCs, and it did a great job of it!
Yuioup 7y ago
I seriously read the url as "God Damn Your Yan"
- nkrisc 7y ago
  Is that not it? Now I feel dumb because I can't see what else it could possibly be.
  - miloignis 7y ago
    I believe the end is "you Ryan"
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
majortennis 7y ago
what no numbers? come on
glofish 7y ago
Thanks for the writeup - it is great to hear stories of getting bootstrapped from zero - one customer at time. We do live in wondrous times when this doable for many more people that previously was possible.

152 points by timschu 7y ago

Really interesting post, thanks for highlighting all of the inflection points in your journey to sale. Inspired me to think really hard about what pain points I have when I freelance.

tunesmith 7y ago

I wonder if there are common best practices on throttling growth for a lifestyle company or bootstrapped startup? I guess it can be as simple as turning off new registrations for periods of time or only allowing invitations at arbitrary times. Has this worked well for any SaaS businesses? Once you hit your financial goals, it could help forestall burnout, but I suppose there's a lot of risk there too - if there's enough unmet demand, someone could replace you.

trevyn 7y ago
1) Turn off any explicit advertising/marketing/drip/promotion systems, even if they’re automated and profitable — they’re hacks that distort your view of the product. Let people sign up, but organic word-of-mouth only. 2) Consider a more relaxed pace of life. Travel widely. The startup world is a microcosm, and if you haven’t personally experienced and understood how people live outside of it for several months or years, it’s easy to overwork yourself and think it’s completely normal. There’s a reason “digital nomad” is a thing — a recurring story is that people try it out on a whim or by chance and then get absolutely hooked. 3) If you still want to invest time, what are you personally interested in building into the product? I think the traditional “talk to your customers” is great for staying grounded and understanding pain points, but you can get stuck in a local maximum. As an engineer/product person, you have a unique insight into what is technically possible in your space, which new technological capabilities will become relevant as time progresses, and the general direction of the market over longer time spans. This is an opportunity to be a long-term thinker and focus on building features or related products that are specifically targeted at highly technical early adopters, so that by the time the idea becomes mainstream, you’ll have a substantial head-start. Be a craftsman and use your skill to more deeply address the problem space. If you’ve hit sustainability, are as lean as most bootstrapped lifestyle companies, and churn is not a major issue in general, I think the risk of being replaced by new contenders is actually a very slow-motion risk — people are not so good at changing their habits. :-)
inapis 7y ago
Adding a significantly high price barrier is enough to arrest growth of most B2C Saas companies. I’m not sure you’d even have a digital nomad life style if you’re running a B2B SaaS, especially if your product is expensive.

natrik 7y ago

Great article. Important takeaways for me - `Being employed by someone is by its very definition, an exploitative relationship, even if your job is great. Your employer can only afford to hire you if you make more money than you cost (again, with a few exceptions of course) so no matter what you are getting paid less than your true value.` `It’s much, much easier to get to the top, or near the top of the wordpress plugin directory than it is google (essentially it’s making sure the description of your plugin has the right keywords, and then you’ll be there essentially instantly).`

Benjammer 7y ago
>Your employer can only afford to hire you if you make more money than you cost (again, with a few exceptions of course) so no matter what you are getting paid less than your true value. This seems like a somewhat simplistic way to view a company. The amount you "make" for the company isn't the same thing as your "true value," because that isn't a real concept. The value you are able to provide changes based on context and objectives. It's leverage in the moment, not "value" in some inherent sense. Do you think every employee in the world should be able to just quit their job and suddenly realize the same return without changing their costs at all?
- grrowl 7y ago
  I code, and probably get paid less than I output in value; but what I output would not be nearly as valuable if not for the others that contribute to the company. My boss, having created the initial value, and other investors and shareholders take the overage.
  - jcims 7y ago
    This is so important. I used to actually hate the sales team at my very first 'real job'...so much that any time I had to go to the bathroom I would walk down two flights of stairs to pollute the air on their floor. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anyway, this dislike came from their tendency to stretch everything and over-commit to get a sale. It ended up souring my opinion of the entire profession and I had zero respect for it...until I tried it myself. I went through this process a few times until I really came to an understanding of how many different personalities and proclivities it takes to successfully run any company of appreciable size.

leetrout 7y ago

I would love to have some reference to selling amount. It sounds like it was easily over $1m but was it 2-4? 5-10? Very curious.

dabeeeenster 7y ago
5x revenue is very good going in this sort of scenario
- leetrout 7y ago
  Right, that is in the article, but there is no mention of their revenue unless I missed something.

Thorentis 7y ago

As somebody thinking of starting a SaaS soon, this was a great and insightful read. The one thing this does confirm for me, is that the best ideas are those that solve problems you already have (or create tools or services you wish you had, etc.) Well done!

robocat 7y ago

> Being employed by someone is by its very definition, an exploitative relationship, even if your job is great. Your employer can only afford to hire you if you make more money than you cost [] so no matter what, you are getting paid less than your true value. Weird fallacy. If I am paid to dig ditches in Haiti, is my true value different from digging ditches in Monaco? The amount someone brings in depends on their context: what organisation, what country, what city. We don’t have a “true value”.

geomark 7y ago
It's a hoot when you hear someone say something like that. I mean, nobody works in a vacuum. The boss used her capital and labor to put in place all the resources that enable you to work, and has to use his capital and labor to maintain a going concern, and deserves to earn something for their labor as well as a return on risked capital which is a risk you as the worker don't take. I'm pretty happy to take a salary and go home at the end of the day without having to worry about losing my entire investment due to the vagaries of business or an employee's bad attitude.
- puranjay 7y ago
  People also underestimate the sheer legal and regulatory BS you have to deal with as an employer. The employee doesn't have to worry about keeping books, filing quarterly taxes, or dealing with any legal entanglements (and for larger companies, there are a lot of legal entanglements). Employees are insulated from all this work, which requires, not just manpower, but also a ton of mental space.
  - cik 7y ago
    Exactly. One of my more frustrating lessons was the sheer amount of time I had to spend on Government related activities whilst running my previous business. I was already a Libertarian going in, but it only served to entrench my stance further. Even when you outsource those things to accountants, lawyers, payroll company, HR, etc... you quickly come to realize how much time, money and effort goes into the cost of maintaining government-related compliance.

blaisio 7y ago

This article is much higher quality than most of the stuff that gets to the front page. Awesome stuff.

amitdangerpatel 7y ago

Entertaining anecdote that didn’t make it into the blog post: people sometimes mistook us (juicer.io) for Juicero, you know, the infamous $400 machine that squeezed a juice packet. The day the Juicero news blew up, we got some especially hateful posts on our Facebook page.

pteraspidomorph 7y ago
That's what I thought I was going to read about before clicking through to the article! (I didn't quite remember the thing's name.)
tonyarkles 7y ago
Heh, I saw a comment the other day about Juicero that I particularly loved: > Juicero wasn’t designed to squeeze juice out of packets of fruit. Juicero was designed to squeeze money out of VCs, and it did a great job of it!

Yuioup 7y ago

I seriously read the url as "God Damn Your Yan"

nkrisc 7y ago
Is that not it? Now I feel dumb because I can't see what else it could possibly be.
- miloignis 7y ago
  I believe the end is "you Ryan"
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

majortennis 7y ago

what no numbers? come on

glofish 7y ago

Thanks for the writeup - it is great to hear stories of getting bootstrapped from zero - one customer at time. We do live in wondrous times when this doable for many more people that previously was possible.