4 ms·

It is not that. It is that regardless if the plane is "fixed" or not, many frequent travelers will refuse to fly on a 737 MAX from now on. Last year I took 73

It is not that. It is that regardless if the plane is "fixed" or not, many frequent travelers will refuse to fly on a 737 MAX from now on. Last year I took 73 flights. At least three of those were on a MAX. I profusely refuse to get on one of those, regardless if they are fixed or not.

tw04 7y ago
I flew about the same, fortunately never on a MAX. That being said I'm in the same boat, you couldn't pay me enough money to take a ride on a plane that the pilot literally cannot fly without the MCAS system functioning perfectly. Maybe I'm just blissfully ignorant to how bad all the planes in the air are... but I feel like pilots would be screaming bloody murder if they were all as bad as the MAX.
- aidenn0 7y ago
  If the MCAS completely disengages, the plane is perfectly flyable under most conditions. It will just pitch up more than other planes in turns, which could be manually fixed by adjusting the trim. The MCAS system is set to automatically adjust the trim, and the crashes were caused by it doing so when there was no need.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >literally cannot fly without the MCAS system functioning perfectly. This is not the problem. The aircraft's performance is within the bounds of "perfectly acceptable for what it is" but it is too different from the existing 737s in a particular area. If the portion of the MCAS that handles this particular area were just turned off the MAX would fly fine but it wouldn't be close enough to a 737 for anyone to say with a straight face that pilots can fly without retraining. This need for pilot compatibility lead to a faulty implementation of MCAS of which flies the plane into the ground in certain conditions.
xxpor 7y ago
Do you refuse to take a car to the airport?
- Angostura 7y ago
  Only the cars that are subject to mandatory recalls.
  - ISL 7y ago
    After the recalls have been addressed?
    - yyhhsj0521 7y ago
      Depends on if they cheated through the initial inspection. Of course mistakes happen, but Boeing explicitly bribed FAA.
      - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        That's quite an accusation. Do you have evidence for it?
    - StuffedParrot 7y ago
      By “addressed” what are you referring to wrt Boeing?
- StuffedParrot 7y ago
  This is stupid; let people have their own values and convictions. Also there is a train to most airports to avoid taking a car.
  - xxpor 7y ago
    People are allowed to have their own convictions, I'm also allowed to call them stupid given they follow no data whatsoever.
    - steve19 7y ago
      No you can't, not on HN. Please see the guidelines here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dbcurtis 7y ago
I have been thinking about how to implement that after the MAX starts flying again. Flight search interfaces don’t seem to filter on equipment. And of course, equipment gets changed at times, so you may book one aircraft and have a different one swapped in on the ramp. I wonder if after you have checked in, and the airline swaps in a MAX, if you can get credit for your ticket if you refuse to board a MAX? I would guess not. (Yes, I know airlines try to avoid changing equipment because it causes reseating hassle and crew scheduling hassle. But it does happen)
- mumblemumble 7y ago
  Seems like you could either target routes that don't fly 737s at all, just much bigger or much smaller planes. Or you could stick to carriers that don't own any 737 MAX 8's such as Amtrak and SNCF.
  - rjsw 7y ago
    There are airlines with an all Airbus fleet, you don't have to stick to travelling by rail.
  - bronco21016 7y ago
    Delta Air Lines, Spirit, JetBlue, Allegiant... you’re not stuck to just rail.
    - mumblemumble 7y ago
      It's too bad that the site where I have the greatest need for emoji is also the only one that doesn't support them.
- jussij 7y ago
  > Flight search interfaces don’t seem to filter on equipment. I suspect this is going to change as booking web sites can use that feature as a selling point. Here in Australia just recently I booked a flight for mid December and was very surprised to see the type of aircraft listed on the bookings page. Now that I have seen this information, I myself will be expecting to see this information and will happily change booking sites if required.

tw04 7y ago

I flew about the same, fortunately never on a MAX. That being said I'm in the same boat, you couldn't pay me enough money to take a ride on a plane that the pilot literally cannot fly without the MCAS system functioning perfectly. Maybe I'm just blissfully ignorant to how bad all the planes in the air are... but I feel like pilots would be screaming bloody murder if they were all as bad as the MAX.

aidenn0 7y ago
If the MCAS completely disengages, the plane is perfectly flyable under most conditions. It will just pitch up more than other planes in turns, which could be manually fixed by adjusting the trim. The MCAS system is set to automatically adjust the trim, and the crashes were caused by it doing so when there was no need.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>literally cannot fly without the MCAS system functioning perfectly. This is not the problem. The aircraft's performance is within the bounds of "perfectly acceptable for what it is" but it is too different from the existing 737s in a particular area. If the portion of the MCAS that handles this particular area were just turned off the MAX would fly fine but it wouldn't be close enough to a 737 for anyone to say with a straight face that pilots can fly without retraining. This need for pilot compatibility lead to a faulty implementation of MCAS of which flies the plane into the ground in certain conditions.

xxpor 7y ago

Do you refuse to take a car to the airport?

Angostura 7y ago
Only the cars that are subject to mandatory recalls.
- ISL 7y ago
  After the recalls have been addressed?
  - yyhhsj0521 7y ago
    Depends on if they cheated through the initial inspection. Of course mistakes happen, but Boeing explicitly bribed FAA.
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      That's quite an accusation. Do you have evidence for it?
  - StuffedParrot 7y ago
    By “addressed” what are you referring to wrt Boeing?
StuffedParrot 7y ago
This is stupid; let people have their own values and convictions. Also there is a train to most airports to avoid taking a car.
- xxpor 7y ago
  People are allowed to have their own convictions, I'm also allowed to call them stupid given they follow no data whatsoever.
  - steve19 7y ago
    No you can't, not on HN. Please see the guidelines here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

dbcurtis 7y ago

I have been thinking about how to implement that after the MAX starts flying again. Flight search interfaces don’t seem to filter on equipment. And of course, equipment gets changed at times, so you may book one aircraft and have a different one swapped in on the ramp. I wonder if after you have checked in, and the airline swaps in a MAX, if you can get credit for your ticket if you refuse to board a MAX? I would guess not. (Yes, I know airlines try to avoid changing equipment because it causes reseating hassle and crew scheduling hassle. But it does happen)

mumblemumble 7y ago
Seems like you could either target routes that don't fly 737s at all, just much bigger or much smaller planes. Or you could stick to carriers that don't own any 737 MAX 8's such as Amtrak and SNCF.
- rjsw 7y ago
  There are airlines with an all Airbus fleet, you don't have to stick to travelling by rail.
- bronco21016 7y ago
  Delta Air Lines, Spirit, JetBlue, Allegiant... you’re not stuck to just rail.
  - mumblemumble 7y ago
    It's too bad that the site where I have the greatest need for emoji is also the only one that doesn't support them.
jussij 7y ago
> Flight search interfaces don’t seem to filter on equipment. I suspect this is going to change as booking web sites can use that feature as a selling point. Here in Australia just recently I booked a flight for mid December and was very surprised to see the type of aircraft listed on the bookings page. Now that I have seen this information, I myself will be expecting to see this information and will happily change booking sites if required.