9 ms·

Donate time, not money. Contribute as a volunteer.

ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
I've heard bad things about writing articles on Wikis. Lots of ego-wars. Not really sure it's worth my time? If it's a good place to be, I'm happy to help. EDIT: But I do trust it. So maybe it doesn't matter?
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  I trusted Wikipedia until I've read articles for which I knew aobut the topic beforehand, too. Now.. not anymore. Pretty sure the crazies with lots of times on their hand have won the editing wars.
  - dharmon 7y ago
    There's a music channel on YouTube that does "Fact or Fiction" with musicians, where they fact-check the person's Wikipedia page with them. Sometimes they don't even get through the first sentence before the person has to stop them with corrections.
    - ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
      And thank you for the link. edit: sorry, was being a bit rude.
    - DHPersonal 7y ago
      Loudwire — Wikipeda: Fact or Fiction? https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvXmarOi5xICV0X4HfMH7S29EpvDpTQgd https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvXmarOi5xICV0X4HfMH7S29E...
      - dharmon 7y ago
        That's it. Sorry, didn't know the name of the channel.
    - pwinnski 7y ago
      Which assumes that the musicians aren't lying, but yes, an occasional lying musician is probably still more accurate overall than Wikipedia's sourcing.
  - raxxorrax 7y ago
    There is a lot of ego, especially on political debates, other articles have a much better quality. I don't know a feasible solution, but I often think the prominent voices are more of a problem than the average contributor. Maybe not tracking the amount of contributios would help. More anonymous access to help against echo chambers and networks?
    - ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
      That's very interesting RE prominent voices. I guess getting into an ego-war with whoever likes to crit your ideas probably happens from time to time. But I do remember reading about a physicist who wasn't allowed to edit the Wiki on their theory! (sorry can't remember who / when)
      - anon73044 7y ago
        iirc it was someone from Periodic Videos or Numberphile
      - elect_engineer 7y ago
        Full disclosure: I am the author of the Wikipedia essay "Wikipedia has cancer". :Would you really prefer it if Wikipedia allowed David Miscavige ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miscavige https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miscavige ) to edit the Wikipedia page on Scientology ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology )? :Wikipedia's policies on writing about yourself are spot on. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Best_practices_for_editors_with_close_associations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Best_practices_for_e...
  - Matticus_Rex 7y ago
    Compared to what? I have the same issue with books in my focus areas that are widely revered, and even some peer-reviewed articles in good journals. I often disagree with things said on Wikipedia, but that's because I often disagree with the novice-accessible versions of things I know a lot about.
- elect_engineer 7y ago
  Full disclosure: I am the author of the Wikipedia essay "Wikipedia has cancer". See https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_C... Re "I've heard bad things about writing articles on Wikis. Lots of ego-wars." you hear those things from new Wikipedia users who decide that the first thing they should do is either [A] "Fix" the Donald Trump article, [B] try to use Wikipedia to advertise their garage band, or [C] try to correct the biases I list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:YWAB https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:YWAB If you pick an article, check the history, and find that it ISN'T getting 300 edits every day, you will have a much easier time improving that article. My Wikipedia page has a link so you can email me. I will be glad to help if you want to become a Wikipedia editor. EDIT: Fixed a bad link.
  - ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
    thank you very much. Will get in touch when the time is right. Also, that link doesn't work. think you need a dot! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_bia...)
    - elect_engineer 7y ago
      It turns out that the ycombinator.com software won't accept a link that ends with a dot. This works: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:YWAB https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:YWAB
  - edraferi 7y ago
    Your bias link doesn’t appear to be correct.
    - elect_engineer 7y ago
      Thanks! looks like it was a screwup by the ycombinator.com software. The original link ends with a period, and the software stripped it out -- probably because adding a period after a link that is at the end of a sentence is a common error. I replaced it with another page on Wikipedia that redirects to the "User:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased." page. Full disclosure: I am the author of the Wikipedia essay "Wikipedia has cancer". See https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_C...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Wikipedia is largely fine, as long as you stay away from things activists are currently interested in.
FabHK 7y ago
I habitually use a VPN, and Wikipedia does not let me contribute (specifically, edit pages), even if I am logged in. So, I don't contribute time anymore, and given the facts mentioned in the essay, I won't contribute money, either. Pity, I profoundly admire Wikipedia.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  You can request an exemption from these IP-level blocks.
  - ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
    how?
    - FabHK 7y ago
      With the beautifully named Unblock Ticket Request System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unblock_Ticket_Request_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unblock_Ticket_Reque...
  - FabHK 7y ago
    Yes, there are some 370 or so users [1] with an IP block exemption, but my request was denied. Just using a VPN habitually is not a good reason, it appears [2]: > An editor with a credible editing record who would be affected by this measure may be exempted from the block at administrative discretion, allowing them to edit uninterrupted through the IP address range block. The conditions for granting this are that: the editor's normal (non-proxy) IP address will be disrupted by an IP address block placed on a range they usually edit on, through no fault of theirs. My highlights. At any rate, I'm not going to invest more time and work into being allowed to contribute to Wikipedia. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers/ipblock-exempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers/ipblock-exem... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption EDIT to add: Discussion of that (IMHO silly) policy here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:IP_block_exemption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:IP_block_exempt...
rsync 7y ago
"Donate time, not money. Contribute as a volunteer." My experience in trying to donate any amount of time and effort to wikipedia has been nothing but pain and suffering at the hands of extremely possessive "little hitlers" that do everything possible to defend their "turf". You are suggesting that volunteering at the corporate/entity level is different than volunteering at the wiki level ?
- jasonsync 7y ago
  > that do everything possible to defend their "turf". In my experience, some of these "little hitlers" appear to be (controlled by) larger corporate entities in some way, shape or form. When the "turf" becomes profitable for some, it becomes very difficult for others to cut the grass so to speak.
- thanatropism 7y ago
  I contribute mostly to talk pages. That's a lower effort choice.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  For Wikipedia I donate money and not time. I agree, people can be possessive about their turf there, but I think that would only be a real problem if Wikipedia weren't amazingly good. Wikipedia has a great output. In my view they don't need my time and effort. They're doing great now. When I see a message asking to donate money, I do, because I assume they do need that if they're asking for money.
  - elect_engineer 7y ago
    Full disclosure: I am the author of the Wikipedia essay "Wikipedia has cancer". See https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_C... Re: "Wikipedia has a great output. In my view they don't need my time and effort. They're doing great now." We really need a lot more help here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Typo_Team https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Typo_Team "The Wikipedia Typo Team is dedicated to improving the quality of Wikipedia by correcting typos and misspellings. If you see any typos (even minor ones), please correct them. This kind of editing is a never-ending job, so we could use your help! Please consider joining our team. All you need to do is start correcting typos." Re: "When I see a message asking to donate money, I do, because I assume they do need that if they're asking for money." please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_C... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/12/02/wikipedia-has-a-ton-of-money-so-why-is-it-begging-you-to-donate-yours/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/12... https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/wikipedia-fundraising-drive-should-you-donate-money-wikipedia-foundation-1531912 https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/wikipedia-fundraising-drive-should... https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/9qqds7Z3Ykd9Kdeay/should-you-donate-to-the-wikimedia-foundation https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/9qqds7Z3Ykd9Kdeay/... http://thewikipedian.net/2016/03/11/modest-proposal-wikimedia-future/ http://thewikipedian.net/2016/03/11/modest-proposal-wikimedi...

I've heard bad things about writing articles on Wikis. Lots of ego-wars. Not really sure it's worth my time? If it's a good place to be, I'm happy to help. EDIT: But I do trust it. So maybe it doesn't matter?

Kaiyou 7y ago
I trusted Wikipedia until I've read articles for which I knew aobut the topic beforehand, too. Now.. not anymore. Pretty sure the crazies with lots of times on their hand have won the editing wars.
- dharmon 7y ago
  There's a music channel on YouTube that does "Fact or Fiction" with musicians, where they fact-check the person's Wikipedia page with them. Sometimes they don't even get through the first sentence before the person has to stop them with corrections.
  - ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
    And thank you for the link. edit: sorry, was being a bit rude.
  - DHPersonal 7y ago
    Loudwire — Wikipeda: Fact or Fiction? https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvXmarOi5xICV0X4HfMH7S29EpvDpTQgd https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvXmarOi5xICV0X4HfMH7S29E...
    - dharmon 7y ago
      That's it. Sorry, didn't know the name of the channel.
  - pwinnski 7y ago
    Which assumes that the musicians aren't lying, but yes, an occasional lying musician is probably still more accurate overall than Wikipedia's sourcing.
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  There is a lot of ego, especially on political debates, other articles have a much better quality. I don't know a feasible solution, but I often think the prominent voices are more of a problem than the average contributor. Maybe not tracking the amount of contributios would help. More anonymous access to help against echo chambers and networks?
  - ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
    That's very interesting RE prominent voices. I guess getting into an ego-war with whoever likes to crit your ideas probably happens from time to time. But I do remember reading about a physicist who wasn't allowed to edit the Wiki on their theory! (sorry can't remember who / when)
    - anon73044 7y ago
      iirc it was someone from Periodic Videos or Numberphile
    - elect_engineer 7y ago
      Full disclosure: I am the author of the Wikipedia essay "Wikipedia has cancer". :Would you really prefer it if Wikipedia allowed David Miscavige ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miscavige https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Miscavige ) to edit the Wikipedia page on Scientology ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology )? :Wikipedia's policies on writing about yourself are spot on. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Best_practices_for_editors_with_close_associations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Best_practices_for_e...
- Matticus_Rex 7y ago
  Compared to what? I have the same issue with books in my focus areas that are widely revered, and even some peer-reviewed articles in good journals. I often disagree with things said on Wikipedia, but that's because I often disagree with the novice-accessible versions of things I know a lot about.
elect_engineer 7y ago
Full disclosure: I am the author of the Wikipedia essay "Wikipedia has cancer". See https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_C... Re "I've heard bad things about writing articles on Wikis. Lots of ego-wars." you hear those things from new Wikipedia users who decide that the first thing they should do is either [A] "Fix" the Donald Trump article, [B] try to use Wikipedia to advertise their garage band, or [C] try to correct the biases I list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:YWAB https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:YWAB If you pick an article, check the history, and find that it ISN'T getting 300 edits every day, you will have a much easier time improving that article. My Wikipedia page has a link so you can email me. I will be glad to help if you want to become a Wikipedia editor. EDIT: Fixed a bad link.
- ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
  thank you very much. Will get in touch when the time is right. Also, that link doesn't work. think you need a dot! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_bia...)
  - elect_engineer 7y ago
    It turns out that the ycombinator.com software won't accept a link that ends with a dot. This works: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:YWAB https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:YWAB
- edraferi 7y ago
  Your bias link doesn’t appear to be correct.
  - elect_engineer 7y ago
    Thanks! looks like it was a screwup by the ycombinator.com software. The original link ends with a period, and the software stripped it out -- probably because adding a period after a link that is at the end of a sentence is a common error. I replaced it with another page on Wikipedia that redirects to the "User:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased." page. Full disclosure: I am the author of the Wikipedia essay "Wikipedia has cancer". See https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_C...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
microcolonel 7y ago
Wikipedia is largely fine, as long as you stay away from things activists are currently interested in.

FabHK 7y ago

I habitually use a VPN, and Wikipedia does not let me contribute (specifically, edit pages), even if I am logged in. So, I don't contribute time anymore, and given the facts mentioned in the essay, I won't contribute money, either. Pity, I profoundly admire Wikipedia.

zozbot234 7y ago
You can request an exemption from these IP-level blocks.
- ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
  how?
  - FabHK 7y ago
    With the beautifully named Unblock Ticket Request System. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unblock_Ticket_Request_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Unblock_Ticket_Reque...
- FabHK 7y ago
  Yes, there are some 370 or so users [1] with an IP block exemption, but my request was denied. Just using a VPN habitually is not a good reason, it appears [2]: > An editor with a credible editing record who would be affected by this measure may be exempted from the block at administrative discretion, allowing them to edit uninterrupted through the IP address range block. The conditions for granting this are that: the editor's normal (non-proxy) IP address will be disrupted by an IP address block placed on a range they usually edit on, through no fault of theirs. My highlights. At any rate, I'm not going to invest more time and work into being allowed to contribute to Wikipedia. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers/ipblock-exempt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers/ipblock-exem... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:IP_block_exemption EDIT to add: Discussion of that (IMHO silly) policy here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:IP_block_exemption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:IP_block_exempt...

rsync 7y ago

"Donate time, not money. Contribute as a volunteer." My experience in trying to donate any amount of time and effort to wikipedia has been nothing but pain and suffering at the hands of extremely possessive "little hitlers" that do everything possible to defend their "turf". You are suggesting that volunteering at the corporate/entity level is different than volunteering at the wiki level ?

jasonsync 7y ago
> that do everything possible to defend their "turf". In my experience, some of these "little hitlers" appear to be (controlled by) larger corporate entities in some way, shape or form. When the "turf" becomes profitable for some, it becomes very difficult for others to cut the grass so to speak.
thanatropism 7y ago
I contribute mostly to talk pages. That's a lower effort choice.
ALittleLight 7y ago
For Wikipedia I donate money and not time. I agree, people can be possessive about their turf there, but I think that would only be a real problem if Wikipedia weren't amazingly good. Wikipedia has a great output. In my view they don't need my time and effort. They're doing great now. When I see a message asking to donate money, I do, because I assume they do need that if they're asking for money.
- elect_engineer 7y ago
  Full disclosure: I am the author of the Wikipedia essay "Wikipedia has cancer". See https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=21700802 and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_C... Re: "Wikipedia has a great output. In my view they don't need my time and effort. They're doing great now." We really need a lot more help here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Typo_Team https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Typo_Team "The Wikipedia Typo Team is dedicated to improving the quality of Wikipedia by correcting typos and misspellings. If you see any typos (even minor ones), please correct them. This kind of editing is a never-ending job, so we could use your help! Please consider joining our team. All you need to do is start correcting typos." Re: "When I see a message asking to donate money, I do, because I assume they do need that if they're asking for money." please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_Cancer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guy_Macon/Wikipedia_has_C... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/12/02/wikipedia-has-a-ton-of-money-so-why-is-it-begging-you-to-donate-yours/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/12... https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/wikipedia-fundraising-drive-should-you-donate-money-wikipedia-foundation-1531912 https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/wikipedia-fundraising-drive-should... https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/9qqds7Z3Ykd9Kdeay/should-you-donate-to-the-wikimedia-foundation https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/9qqds7Z3Ykd9Kdeay/... http://thewikipedian.net/2016/03/11/modest-proposal-wikimedia-future/ http://thewikipedian.net/2016/03/11/modest-proposal-wikimedi...