6 ms·

So I'm ready for the downvotes, but its worth it. I don't think it is generally good to look for divisions and more ways to separate from the whole. I don't kno

by whb07 7y ago

So I'm ready for the downvotes, but its worth it. I don't think it is generally good to look for divisions and more ways to separate from the whole. I don't know if that is because you're out somewhere in super woke SF or similar but you've already used terms like "LatinX" and "person of color" like someone who is already woke but maybe stop for a sec? Why don't you see yourself as a person who likes CS/tech and likes doing XYZ things with ABC tools? Or maybe believe for a brief second that the "caucasian American", is probably thinking about what show to watch on Netflix rather than some shitty thoughts about how you don't fit in. I also would be willing to be my bottom dollar that Google of all places doesn't feel like a small town in Sweden. I'm willing to bet there are way too many Asians (yellow and brown) for that to be true. Also, seriously wtf is LatinX? Seriously. <--- this author is also an immigrant from that small country north of Peru.

deogeo 7y ago
> I also would be willing to be my bottom dollar that Google of all places doesn't feel like a small town in Sweden. You would win that bet - Google is 54.4% white, 39.8% asian, according to https://diversity.google/annual-report/#!#_this-years-data https://diversity.google/annual-report/#!#_this-years-data The US is 61.5% white, so whites are underrepresented at Google.
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to match the demographics of the entire US unless they have a uniform presence across the entire US, such as one might find with Wal-Mart. It's a big country, and the people tend to aggregate into clumps. Alphabet keeps about 1/4 of its people in Mountain View. In terms of the demographics of San Francisco metropolitan area, those diversity report numbers likely only slightly overrepresent whites and Asians. Statistically, it is unlikely that Alphabet/Google has a racial bias in hiring, but it certainly has a geographical bias for California. I might bet a dollar--other than my bottom one--that the offices outside of California all feel like a small town in Silicon Valley.
  - AdrianB1 7y ago
    But what demographics were used to target 50% females?
- whb07 7y ago
  The problem with your stats is that not very long ago, the term "white" essentially referred to a Protestant European. Didn't actually apply to Italians, Greeks, Jews, etc. So if history tells us something is that this will also change. Also Google's CEO is noticeably anything but white.
- trhway 7y ago
  >Google is 54.4% white, 39.8% asian it correlates well with what population looks like if you look at the percentiles of 750 Math SAT - 3% of whites, 20% of asian and 1% of the rest of race/ethnicity categories (like African American and Hispanic) make it there: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/sat-percentile... Multiplying by their representation in the overall population, 61% white, 6% asian and 33% for the rest , we can see that the representation at Google is a very close correlate : (3 x 61) / (20 x 6) / (1 x 33) = 183 / 120 / 33 vs. (54.4 / 39.8 / the rest about 6%)
sachi_inchi 7y ago
Basic Principles of Respectful Discussion: 1) Assume good faith until you have reason to assume otherwise. Try your best to NOT make assumptions about people's experiences or situations. 2) If someone, particularly a marginalized person, brings up an experience they have had but you have not had, your first impulse should be to hear them out, NOT to invalidate them. 3) Likewise, just because you personally may not have seen or experienced something in this group/in real life, it does not mean that said thing does not happen. 4) Above all, just be good to each other. It can often be difficult to discern tone and intent over the internet, but try not to pounce on each other too quickly.
- allovernow 7y ago
  >If someone, particularly a marginalized person, brings up an experience they have had but you have not had, your first impulse should be to hear them out, NOT to invalidate them. The fact that the recounter of a first hand experience is a monirity does not mean that their perspective is automatically valid. And it isn't some mortal sin to question or invalidate the conclusions they draw from experience. It drowns out unpopular (but not necessarily untrue) perspectives and stymies productive conversation. No one deserves special privileges for having a particular skin color or sexuality. This is exactly the kind of unnecessary segregation that the gp is talking about. It's the first steps along the path that leads to some of us being more equal than others and these pedestals we place minorities on are doing far more harm than good.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
sbilstein 7y ago
I think you might be reading into what I wrote a bit. This is just how I feel...not how I WANT to feel. Obviously, these are biases and anxieties that exist in my own mixed-race low-income immigrant brain that i wish weren't there. As another latino founder told me..."walk into a VC pitch meeting with the confidence of a tall white man." Like I don't hate caucasians but sometimes can't help but notice these differences. I also can't just focus on fucking Netflix during an interview! These anxieties and nervousness creep into our heads whether we like it or not!
- mjfisher 7y ago
  I don't know if this will be of any use to you. If you're pitching to VCs, you're already operating way above my level. I also don't know if it's different over here. I live and work in the UK and I'm white. I genuinely don't think I've worked with anyone in the tech industry who cares what race or background their co-workers have. There's definitely an underrepresentation problem (most grievously with female engineers), but I sincerely believe the problem is mostly systemic, rather than driven by personal prejudice. From my (limited) perspective, the only thing anyone gives a damn about is whether you're a good developer. If you can code, if you can ship, if you can work well with your other colleagues. Please don't feel like you have you walk into meetings pretending you're somebody else. Walk into meetings with the confidence of a great engineer and founder - because anybody who gives a crap about anything else isn't worth impressing. With love, from one engineer to another ️
  - sbilstein 7y ago
    The best athletes in the world still get nervous before games. Same with musicians. I don’t feel meta bad about getting nervous. It just sucks to feel nervous!
    - bjelkeman-again 7y ago
      As long as the nervousness doesn’t seriously affect the presentation it is ok or even good. I find a bit of adrenaline helps me put my best effort in.
droopyEyelids 7y ago
Latinx is a term that USA whites prefer to use when referring to hispanic people or people from a country south of the USA. It eliminates the misogyny that english-language-only whites read into romance languages. Surveys show that only 2% of the people referred to as "Latinx" prefer that term. So the whole phenomenon is crazy to think about. https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollster-trust-me-latinos-do-not-identify-with-latinx-63229adebcea https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollst...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
CapricornNoble 7y ago
>>>Also, seriously wtf is LatinX? Seriously. As another minority I also looked at the poster's usage of LatinX unironically with surprise, and drew similar conclusions about their "wokeness". https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/98-of-hispanics-and-latinos-do-not-identify-as-latinx https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/98-of-hispanics-and-...

by whb07 7y ago

deogeo 7y ago

> I also would be willing to be my bottom dollar that Google of all places doesn't feel like a small town in Sweden. You would win that bet - Google is 54.4% white, 39.8% asian, according to https://diversity.google/annual-report/#!#_this-years-data https://diversity.google/annual-report/#!#_this-years-data The US is 61.5% white, so whites are underrepresented at Google.

logfromblammo 7y ago
I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to match the demographics of the entire US unless they have a uniform presence across the entire US, such as one might find with Wal-Mart. It's a big country, and the people tend to aggregate into clumps. Alphabet keeps about 1/4 of its people in Mountain View. In terms of the demographics of San Francisco metropolitan area, those diversity report numbers likely only slightly overrepresent whites and Asians. Statistically, it is unlikely that Alphabet/Google has a racial bias in hiring, but it certainly has a geographical bias for California. I might bet a dollar--other than my bottom one--that the offices outside of California all feel like a small town in Silicon Valley.
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  But what demographics were used to target 50% females?
whb07 7y ago
The problem with your stats is that not very long ago, the term "white" essentially referred to a Protestant European. Didn't actually apply to Italians, Greeks, Jews, etc. So if history tells us something is that this will also change. Also Google's CEO is noticeably anything but white.
trhway 7y ago
>Google is 54.4% white, 39.8% asian it correlates well with what population looks like if you look at the percentiles of 750 Math SAT - 3% of whites, 20% of asian and 1% of the rest of race/ethnicity categories (like African American and Hispanic) make it there: https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/sat-percentile-ranks-gender-race-ethnicity.pdf https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/sat-percentile... Multiplying by their representation in the overall population, 61% white, 6% asian and 33% for the rest , we can see that the representation at Google is a very close correlate : (3 x 61) / (20 x 6) / (1 x 33) = 183 / 120 / 33 vs. (54.4 / 39.8 / the rest about 6%)

sachi_inchi 7y ago

Basic Principles of Respectful Discussion: 1) Assume good faith until you have reason to assume otherwise. Try your best to NOT make assumptions about people's experiences or situations. 2) If someone, particularly a marginalized person, brings up an experience they have had but you have not had, your first impulse should be to hear them out, NOT to invalidate them. 3) Likewise, just because you personally may not have seen or experienced something in this group/in real life, it does not mean that said thing does not happen. 4) Above all, just be good to each other. It can often be difficult to discern tone and intent over the internet, but try not to pounce on each other too quickly.

allovernow 7y ago
>If someone, particularly a marginalized person, brings up an experience they have had but you have not had, your first impulse should be to hear them out, NOT to invalidate them. The fact that the recounter of a first hand experience is a monirity does not mean that their perspective is automatically valid. And it isn't some mortal sin to question or invalidate the conclusions they draw from experience. It drowns out unpopular (but not necessarily untrue) perspectives and stymies productive conversation. No one deserves special privileges for having a particular skin color or sexuality. This is exactly the kind of unnecessary segregation that the gp is talking about. It's the first steps along the path that leads to some of us being more equal than others and these pedestals we place minorities on are doing far more harm than good.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

sbilstein 7y ago

I think you might be reading into what I wrote a bit. This is just how I feel...not how I WANT to feel. Obviously, these are biases and anxieties that exist in my own mixed-race low-income immigrant brain that i wish weren't there. As another latino founder told me..."walk into a VC pitch meeting with the confidence of a tall white man." Like I don't hate caucasians but sometimes can't help but notice these differences. I also can't just focus on fucking Netflix during an interview! These anxieties and nervousness creep into our heads whether we like it or not!

mjfisher 7y ago
I don't know if this will be of any use to you. If you're pitching to VCs, you're already operating way above my level. I also don't know if it's different over here. I live and work in the UK and I'm white. I genuinely don't think I've worked with anyone in the tech industry who cares what race or background their co-workers have. There's definitely an underrepresentation problem (most grievously with female engineers), but I sincerely believe the problem is mostly systemic, rather than driven by personal prejudice. From my (limited) perspective, the only thing anyone gives a damn about is whether you're a good developer. If you can code, if you can ship, if you can work well with your other colleagues. Please don't feel like you have you walk into meetings pretending you're somebody else. Walk into meetings with the confidence of a great engineer and founder - because anybody who gives a crap about anything else isn't worth impressing. With love, from one engineer to another ️
- sbilstein 7y ago
  The best athletes in the world still get nervous before games. Same with musicians. I don’t feel meta bad about getting nervous. It just sucks to feel nervous!
  - bjelkeman-again 7y ago
    As long as the nervousness doesn’t seriously affect the presentation it is ok or even good. I find a bit of adrenaline helps me put my best effort in.

droopyEyelids 7y ago

Latinx is a term that USA whites prefer to use when referring to hispanic people or people from a country south of the USA. It eliminates the misogyny that english-language-only whites read into romance languages. Surveys show that only 2% of the people referred to as "Latinx" prefer that term. So the whole phenomenon is crazy to think about. https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollster-trust-me-latinos-do-not-identify-with-latinx-63229adebcea https://medium.com/@ThinkNowTweets/progressive-latino-pollst...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

CapricornNoble 7y ago

>>>Also, seriously wtf is LatinX? Seriously. As another minority I also looked at the poster's usage of LatinX unironically with surprise, and drew similar conclusions about their "wokeness". https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/98-of-hispanics-and-latinos-do-not-identify-as-latinx https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/98-of-hispanics-and-...