5 ms·

So which politics are OK and which aren't? They're both politics even if they're "orthogonal".

goatinaboat 7y ago
The first one is protected by law, which is what this case hinges on. But it’s not at all clear that everyone who wants a union at work also shares an identical opinion on open borders, drone strikes, facial recognition etc etc
SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
The kind of politics where you point at specific people or groups and say "ooh, they're nasty" isn't OK.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Unions have traditionally painted management as adversarial to employee best interests. Is agitating for unionization therefore the kind of politics that isn't okay?
  - SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
    Agitating for unionization often involves pointing out specific problems with working conditions, and suggesting that a union would help solve those problems. I have no issue with that kind of thing. If the entire union pitch is "the bosses are greedy fat cats, let's get them!", I do think that's toxic. There are good reasons why companies can't ban even toxic kinds of union organizing, but I would be very unhappy if I had to hear that all the time.
  - Noos 7y ago
    Unionization is done for collective bargaining in worker's best interest; the problem is when it is done to organize strikes to force the employer to enact social or political policies. This may remove the idea of collective bargaining and turn it into a top down fiefdom to promote the organizers pet ideologies
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      It could, if union members didn't take active interest in the activities of the union, since union leadership is generally beholden to them. This is true of any body politic that elects leadership. I find myself wondering (from the aggregate of posts in this topic) how many people actually have union experience. Unions are highly political creatures. In my state, at least one of the unions requires during election seasons that their membership take time out of their personal lives (time the union knows they have because they've held hours and overtime standards for over a century) to work the phones to stump for political candidates the union supports.
iguy 7y ago
Is this such a gray area? Sure unions are political, but they are politics directly relevant to the relationship of employees and their employer. Whereas your views on foreign policy or abortion laws or the existence of god, these are what many people think you should leave at home.

The first one is protected by law, which is what this case hinges on. But it’s not at all clear that everyone who wants a union at work also shares an identical opinion on open borders, drone strikes, facial recognition etc etc

SpicyLemonZest 7y ago

The kind of politics where you point at specific people or groups and say "ooh, they're nasty" isn't OK.

shadowgovt 7y ago
Unions have traditionally painted management as adversarial to employee best interests. Is agitating for unionization therefore the kind of politics that isn't okay?
- SpicyLemonZest 7y ago
  Agitating for unionization often involves pointing out specific problems with working conditions, and suggesting that a union would help solve those problems. I have no issue with that kind of thing. If the entire union pitch is "the bosses are greedy fat cats, let's get them!", I do think that's toxic. There are good reasons why companies can't ban even toxic kinds of union organizing, but I would be very unhappy if I had to hear that all the time.
- Noos 7y ago
  Unionization is done for collective bargaining in worker's best interest; the problem is when it is done to organize strikes to force the employer to enact social or political policies. This may remove the idea of collective bargaining and turn it into a top down fiefdom to promote the organizers pet ideologies
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    It could, if union members didn't take active interest in the activities of the union, since union leadership is generally beholden to them. This is true of any body politic that elects leadership. I find myself wondering (from the aggregate of posts in this topic) how many people actually have union experience. Unions are highly political creatures. In my state, at least one of the unions requires during election seasons that their membership take time out of their personal lives (time the union knows they have because they've held hours and overtime standards for over a century) to work the phones to stump for political candidates the union supports.

iguy 7y ago

Is this such a gray area? Sure unions are political, but they are politics directly relevant to the relationship of employees and their employer. Whereas your views on foreign policy or abortion laws or the existence of god, these are what many people think you should leave at home.