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>As a prospective remote, I don't care if you pay +20% in SFC. I am in another place, and if you can outbid my next best offer by 10% I win. No you don't win.
by aantix 7y ago
>As a prospective remote, I don't care if you pay +20% in SFC. I am in another place, and if you can outbid my next best offer by 10% I win.
No you don't win. If you leave 100K on table, you lose.
I don't want "a good salary for my area". If I'm entrusted to deliver a million dollar feature for a Bay Area company, I want the max payout for that responsibility regardless of whether I delivered it from Iowa or Vietnam.
I want to have options for my family, for myself. We want to travel the world, own a home in a great neighborhood with great schools, have experiences that few others get. And you don't get those options in life with being content with "a good salary for my area" and then denying yourself coffee from Starbucks because you're still living on a budget.
- throwaway5752 7y agoWell, I started out by agreeing with you. For lots of reasons I won't go into, local cost of living adjustments are a bad idea and employee comp should be as flat as possible. International complications can make that tough but I'm ignoring that. But in a very fundamental way, I disagree with you. The reality is that you as a job-seeker have options and constraints when you are looking for a job. If a company isn't willing to pay you what you'd get if you were in Boston, but you aren't willing to move, then you have an impasse. If another company is will to pay that, then you take that offer. You have a set of offers and you take the best one available - not one that measures up to a hypothetical ideal. You may want things, but that is totally immaterial to an employer. It depends on how valuable your skills are and how rare they are, regardless of location.
- toasterlovin 7y agoIf you want to participate in profit, then you need to become capital, not labor. Labor sells itself in a competitive market. Prices will be determined by what other, comparable labor is offering itself for, not the value created for the company.
- jimbokun 7y agoYou need to read this: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-programmer/ https://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/10/28/dont-call-yourself-a-pr... If you are calling yourself and marketing yourself as "labor", you have already lost the game.
- random314 7y agoLast I checked, patio11 is now working as a regular employee with standard salary and benefits.
- patio11 7y agoI'm constrained in my ability to talk about particular negotiations but, to the limited extent that HNers are taking direction from my life decisions, I'd advise you to assume that my negotiations do not frequently include "I consider myself basically a commodity fungible with a few hundred people you could source today and so I guess I'll take whatever the standard offer is."
- BeyondLimits99 7y agoHey Patio11, huge fan of your work :) If you don't mind me asking, how did you learn to negotiate? Any resources you could recommend?
- james_s_tayler 7y agoHe doesn't negotiate. He generates unreasonably large amounts of leverage and uses it against his opponents. You might be thinking "hey, wait a minute, that sounds like negotiating!". Well... You have to have something to negotiate with. So the question is how can you generate leverage?
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- mikekchar 7y ago
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- mantas 7y agoIt does work that way long term. Local employers start raising salaries to outbid remote employers. Then remote employers have to raise their offers. Rinse and repeat. Source: remote worker for over a decade residing in a relatively cheap country