7 ms·

Even if you're not obese, fasting appears to be one of the most healthy things you can do for your body. Low insulin variability, autophagy, clear out visceral

Even if you're not obese, fasting appears to be one of the most healthy things you can do for your body. Low insulin variability, autophagy, clear out visceral fat on organs, yields extended longevity in lab mice, etc.

rpmisms 7y ago
Unless you have low body fat, which is less common than it used to be. I maintain body fat under 7%, and I have to eat regularly or I will become very ill very quickly. If I'm to fast, I have to cut something from my diet, not cut my diet.
- loeg 7y ago
  You are an extreme outlier. Even for men, bf% under 7 is in or getting into the unhealthily low range. Fasting is not for you.
- not_a_moth 7y ago
  The feeling ill part is a n=1. As mentioned from fasting you still get major benefits from autophay, sirtuin activation, longevity, low insulin variability. Some of the top fitness and health practitioners who are big on fasting are very low body fat, incredible shape.
  - jniedrauer 7y ago
    If you are highly active and have a low bodyfat percent, then you are just catabolizing your own muscle by fasting, and you become very injury prone. There's no upside.
    - not_a_moth 7y ago
      You seem out of touch with the scientific literature, and have hand-waved all the real health benefits I've listed. Leading figures like Peter Attia, Tim Ferriss, Ben Greenfield, David Sinclair, Kevin Rose to name a few, all pro fasting, all in top shape/low body fat. > and you become very injury prone No, you become temporarily weaker, and that's only if you're fasting multiple days. It's recommended you work out during fasts... your body remains anabolic to muscle (barring other variables like elevated stress).
      - jniedrauer 7y ago
        With the exception of Ben Greenfield, none of these people seem to have a sports science background. In the realm of athletics, things like intermittent fasting and keto diets are something of a meme. Some people do advocate for training with depleted muscle glycogen first thing in the morning, but there's no consensus that this does anything.
  - rpmisms 7y ago
    Autophagy for me is my muscles eating themselves for energy. Not healthy, and it feels like being beaten.
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  A lot of "conventional wisdom" about health seems to be targeted at people who are sedentary, which is kind of counterproductive, since being active is the most effective way to improve your health. When you're highly active, things like intermittent fasting start to make a lot less sense.
  - PretzelFisch 7y ago
    You can't outrun a bad diet. It's way too easy to overeat in our modern world, even if you're active.
    - jniedrauer 7y ago
      > You can't outrun a bad diet In spite of jamming as much junk food down my throat as I possibly could, I struggled to maintain weight on the Appalachian trail. You can definitely outrun a bad diet. (Not that it's a healthy way to live either.)
      - burlesona 7y ago
        Not everyone can. Genetic factors and how your body handles insulin determine almost everything about how your body will gain or lose weight and in what conditions. Gary Taubes book “Why we get fat,” is a great read on this subject.
        Cougher 7y ago
        I agree that outrunning a diet is something that outliers do, but has Gary Taubes found a way for his foundation to confirm his claims after it refuted them? There's little doubt that genetics and how your body handles insulin have influence, but the variations still don't compare with how many calories you consume versus how much you move, given a healthy diet.
      - elif 7y ago
        I had the same problem on the AT. But, yknow, HYOH
- ANY_TRUERS_LULW 7y ago
  That's cute but I guarantee you don't actually maintain at "under 7%" unless you are emaciated. Neither calipers nor electrical impedance tests measure accurately (which is what you are probably using). DEXA scans or hydrostatic tests are the only way to. And I guarantee that you are probably more like 11-13%.
- jodrellblank 7y ago
  Intermittent Fasting, as described on the internet, doesn't involve eating less food but rather eating within a narrower time window. You can get 16-23 hours of fasting in a 24 hour day, and suggestions are that useful changes happen around 12 hours after eating, and (e.g. work of Prof. Sachin Panda) that fasts of this kind of length can do significant good for animal health. Are you talking of this kind of thing, low body fat makes even this difficult, or are you talking of multi-day fasting?
  - javagram 7y ago
    FWIW, the time window of Intermittent Fasting usually leads to eating less food. Although there are other benefits to IF, the weight loss is principally from calories in, calories out, because it’s much harder to cram an excess of calories into a small time window unless you purposefully eat beyond satiation.
    - jodrellblank 7y ago
      > the weight loss is principally from calories in, calories out Is it? Study [1] claims "Mice fed an FS [fat and sugar] diet ad libitum (FSA) consumed the same amount of calories as mice fed within a 9 hr window of the dark phase (FST) [fat and sugar, time restricted] (Figure S2A, i), yet the FST [time restricted] mice gained less body weight" and then "to investigate the therapeutic potential of TRF [Time Restricted Feeding], we tested whether TRF could reverse or arrest body weight gain [..] Within a few days the mice were habituated to the new feeding paradigm and continued to consume equivalent calories (Figure S2A, iv). The 13:12 FAT mice showed a modest drop in body weight" [1] https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(14)00498-7 https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(14)... From related work of https://www.salk.edu/scientist/satchidananda-panda/ https://www.salk.edu/scientist/satchidananda-panda/ I think "it has to be calories in/calories out because it's just common sense" is not nuanced enough for biological systems.
  - rpmisms 7y ago
    I do intermittent fasting frequently. I can't fast from food for long periods, or go below a certain calorie count in a day. As long as I get the nutrition I need, I'm ok, I just run on thin margins.
- crazygringo 7y ago
  I found something similar too -- and I'm nowhere even near that thin. I successfully lost 50 lbs a few years ago doing keto and brought myself to exactly the middle of normal BMI. While I was losing the weight, keto was easy -- I always had energy (more than ever before), felt great, wasn't getting sick. But once I hit my target weight... all of a sudden keto became miserable. I had brain fog all the time, except for about the window of 2-4 hrs after each meal when my digestion seemed to peak. I started getting colds all the time. Once I switched back to eating carbs, I felt great. My theory is that your body burns fat proportionally to the amount of fat you have... and that it's fine to fuel yourself until you just don't have enough fat anymore to keep it going to even things out between meals. I was pretty bummed actually to discover that keto doesn't work for me anymore, when I'm already at a healthy weight. I just loved the constant energy. But for however my body's built, it's just not an option for me anymore.
  - carty76ers 7y ago
    Oh that sounds difficult. Were you eating enough fat & protein each meal, that you needed to burn off? Since your body didn’t have the fat stored...
WilliamEdward 7y ago
Been fasting on and off for a while now, maybe 1-2 days every week. The effects are immediately noticeable, on about day 3 i feel better. A week later i see the weight loss, better skin, etc. It's a good feeling that everyone should try at least once. Disclaimer: I eat like garbage so it's more likely that not eating garbage is having these positive effects, not just fasting.
diminoten 7y ago
In no way is fasting healthy for you if you rely on having energy, focus, or any ability to function as an independent adult while fasting for more than a day or so at most.
- JenrHywy 7y ago
  That's not my experience. I've done a few 72hr fasts, and many 48hrs fasts. In general I find I have more focus, more even mood and more enthusiasm (though less energy for physical activity) while fasting.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    I was going to say something similar. I've fasted for up to 5 days before, and I felt just fine - especially on days 4 and 5, I actually feel like I have more mental clarity and drive than usual.
  - loeg 7y ago
    If you don't mind sharing, what kind of starting body fat % (or as a poor proxy, BMI), did you have at the beginning of your multiday fasts? I don't care about the literal numbers, but: bottom of healthy range? Mid-healthy range? Above healthy range? Do you exercise regularly (and did you keep it up during the fasts)? I guess this is always my question of anyone who has a positive experience with fasts. Personally, I have been at the mid-upper range of healthy bf%/weight for years and exercise frequently (running 30+ minutes 7 days a week for a few years, cycling 60+ minutes 2-3 a week this year) and find much shorter fasts (say, 20h) excruciating and completely draining mentally and physically. And I'm not at 7% body fat like that other guy. Lowest I got was maybe 14% while I was running daily; while I'm up to 18%ish now, fasting hasn't gotten any easier. (Even if I skipped exercising, just the mental effects made my mood significantly worse by the end of the day, which makes it harder to work effectively in a collaborative environment.)
    - JenrHywy 7y ago
      I'd say that I'm in a similar position to you, though not as fit. I do a short HIIT session every day and am marginally chubby. What's your non-fasting diet like? Fasting is the quickest way to get into ketosis. If you're used to eating a carb-heavy diet, the switch into ketosis can be brutal. So if you either ease off carbs leading up to the fast, or just all the time, it'll be easier. The other thing is electrolytes. Your body doesn't store them, so you (IMO) have to supplement. If you start to feel like crap, have 1tsp of salt in about 1L of water and see if it fixes it. I also supplement with magnesium and occasionally potassium.
tingletech 7y ago
I just learned about autophagy (literally self-eating) this week reading about fasting and the Prolon Fast Mimicking Diet. This is why fasting is popular with cancer patients, your body maybe will start eating the cancer cells. https://greatist.com/live/autophagy-fasting-exercise#definition https://greatist.com/live/autophagy-fasting-exercise#definit... https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet/ https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet/

rpmisms 7y ago

Unless you have low body fat, which is less common than it used to be. I maintain body fat under 7%, and I have to eat regularly or I will become very ill very quickly. If I'm to fast, I have to cut something from my diet, not cut my diet.

loeg 7y ago
You are an extreme outlier. Even for men, bf% under 7 is in or getting into the unhealthily low range. Fasting is not for you.
not_a_moth 7y ago
The feeling ill part is a n=1. As mentioned from fasting you still get major benefits from autophay, sirtuin activation, longevity, low insulin variability. Some of the top fitness and health practitioners who are big on fasting are very low body fat, incredible shape.
- jniedrauer 7y ago
  If you are highly active and have a low bodyfat percent, then you are just catabolizing your own muscle by fasting, and you become very injury prone. There's no upside.
  - not_a_moth 7y ago
    You seem out of touch with the scientific literature, and have hand-waved all the real health benefits I've listed. Leading figures like Peter Attia, Tim Ferriss, Ben Greenfield, David Sinclair, Kevin Rose to name a few, all pro fasting, all in top shape/low body fat. > and you become very injury prone No, you become temporarily weaker, and that's only if you're fasting multiple days. It's recommended you work out during fasts... your body remains anabolic to muscle (barring other variables like elevated stress).
    - jniedrauer 7y ago
      With the exception of Ben Greenfield, none of these people seem to have a sports science background. In the realm of athletics, things like intermittent fasting and keto diets are something of a meme. Some people do advocate for training with depleted muscle glycogen first thing in the morning, but there's no consensus that this does anything.
- rpmisms 7y ago
  Autophagy for me is my muscles eating themselves for energy. Not healthy, and it feels like being beaten.
jniedrauer 7y ago
A lot of "conventional wisdom" about health seems to be targeted at people who are sedentary, which is kind of counterproductive, since being active is the most effective way to improve your health. When you're highly active, things like intermittent fasting start to make a lot less sense.
- PretzelFisch 7y ago
  You can't outrun a bad diet. It's way too easy to overeat in our modern world, even if you're active.
  - jniedrauer 7y ago
    > You can't outrun a bad diet In spite of jamming as much junk food down my throat as I possibly could, I struggled to maintain weight on the Appalachian trail. You can definitely outrun a bad diet. (Not that it's a healthy way to live either.)
    - burlesona 7y ago
      Not everyone can. Genetic factors and how your body handles insulin determine almost everything about how your body will gain or lose weight and in what conditions. Gary Taubes book “Why we get fat,” is a great read on this subject.
      - Cougher 7y ago
        I agree that outrunning a diet is something that outliers do, but has Gary Taubes found a way for his foundation to confirm his claims after it refuted them? There's little doubt that genetics and how your body handles insulin have influence, but the variations still don't compare with how many calories you consume versus how much you move, given a healthy diet.
    - elif 7y ago
      I had the same problem on the AT. But, yknow, HYOH
ANY_TRUERS_LULW 7y ago
That's cute but I guarantee you don't actually maintain at "under 7%" unless you are emaciated. Neither calipers nor electrical impedance tests measure accurately (which is what you are probably using). DEXA scans or hydrostatic tests are the only way to. And I guarantee that you are probably more like 11-13%.
jodrellblank 7y ago
Intermittent Fasting, as described on the internet, doesn't involve eating less food but rather eating within a narrower time window. You can get 16-23 hours of fasting in a 24 hour day, and suggestions are that useful changes happen around 12 hours after eating, and (e.g. work of Prof. Sachin Panda) that fasts of this kind of length can do significant good for animal health. Are you talking of this kind of thing, low body fat makes even this difficult, or are you talking of multi-day fasting?
- javagram 7y ago
  FWIW, the time window of Intermittent Fasting usually leads to eating less food. Although there are other benefits to IF, the weight loss is principally from calories in, calories out, because it’s much harder to cram an excess of calories into a small time window unless you purposefully eat beyond satiation.
  - jodrellblank 7y ago
    > the weight loss is principally from calories in, calories out Is it? Study [1] claims "Mice fed an FS [fat and sugar] diet ad libitum (FSA) consumed the same amount of calories as mice fed within a 9 hr window of the dark phase (FST) [fat and sugar, time restricted] (Figure S2A, i), yet the FST [time restricted] mice gained less body weight" and then "to investigate the therapeutic potential of TRF [Time Restricted Feeding], we tested whether TRF could reverse or arrest body weight gain [..] Within a few days the mice were habituated to the new feeding paradigm and continued to consume equivalent calories (Figure S2A, iv). The 13:12 FAT mice showed a modest drop in body weight" [1] https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(14)00498-7 https://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(14)... From related work of https://www.salk.edu/scientist/satchidananda-panda/ https://www.salk.edu/scientist/satchidananda-panda/ I think "it has to be calories in/calories out because it's just common sense" is not nuanced enough for biological systems.
- rpmisms 7y ago
  I do intermittent fasting frequently. I can't fast from food for long periods, or go below a certain calorie count in a day. As long as I get the nutrition I need, I'm ok, I just run on thin margins.
crazygringo 7y ago
I found something similar too -- and I'm nowhere even near that thin. I successfully lost 50 lbs a few years ago doing keto and brought myself to exactly the middle of normal BMI. While I was losing the weight, keto was easy -- I always had energy (more than ever before), felt great, wasn't getting sick. But once I hit my target weight... all of a sudden keto became miserable. I had brain fog all the time, except for about the window of 2-4 hrs after each meal when my digestion seemed to peak. I started getting colds all the time. Once I switched back to eating carbs, I felt great. My theory is that your body burns fat proportionally to the amount of fat you have... and that it's fine to fuel yourself until you just don't have enough fat anymore to keep it going to even things out between meals. I was pretty bummed actually to discover that keto doesn't work for me anymore, when I'm already at a healthy weight. I just loved the constant energy. But for however my body's built, it's just not an option for me anymore.
- carty76ers 7y ago
  Oh that sounds difficult. Were you eating enough fat & protein each meal, that you needed to burn off? Since your body didn’t have the fat stored...

WilliamEdward 7y ago

Been fasting on and off for a while now, maybe 1-2 days every week. The effects are immediately noticeable, on about day 3 i feel better. A week later i see the weight loss, better skin, etc. It's a good feeling that everyone should try at least once. Disclaimer: I eat like garbage so it's more likely that not eating garbage is having these positive effects, not just fasting.

diminoten 7y ago

In no way is fasting healthy for you if you rely on having energy, focus, or any ability to function as an independent adult while fasting for more than a day or so at most.

JenrHywy 7y ago
That's not my experience. I've done a few 72hr fasts, and many 48hrs fasts. In general I find I have more focus, more even mood and more enthusiasm (though less energy for physical activity) while fasting.
- GordonS 7y ago
  I was going to say something similar. I've fasted for up to 5 days before, and I felt just fine - especially on days 4 and 5, I actually feel like I have more mental clarity and drive than usual.
- loeg 7y ago
  If you don't mind sharing, what kind of starting body fat % (or as a poor proxy, BMI), did you have at the beginning of your multiday fasts? I don't care about the literal numbers, but: bottom of healthy range? Mid-healthy range? Above healthy range? Do you exercise regularly (and did you keep it up during the fasts)? I guess this is always my question of anyone who has a positive experience with fasts. Personally, I have been at the mid-upper range of healthy bf%/weight for years and exercise frequently (running 30+ minutes 7 days a week for a few years, cycling 60+ minutes 2-3 a week this year) and find much shorter fasts (say, 20h) excruciating and completely draining mentally and physically. And I'm not at 7% body fat like that other guy. Lowest I got was maybe 14% while I was running daily; while I'm up to 18%ish now, fasting hasn't gotten any easier. (Even if I skipped exercising, just the mental effects made my mood significantly worse by the end of the day, which makes it harder to work effectively in a collaborative environment.)
  - JenrHywy 7y ago
    I'd say that I'm in a similar position to you, though not as fit. I do a short HIIT session every day and am marginally chubby. What's your non-fasting diet like? Fasting is the quickest way to get into ketosis. If you're used to eating a carb-heavy diet, the switch into ketosis can be brutal. So if you either ease off carbs leading up to the fast, or just all the time, it'll be easier. The other thing is electrolytes. Your body doesn't store them, so you (IMO) have to supplement. If you start to feel like crap, have 1tsp of salt in about 1L of water and see if it fixes it. I also supplement with magnesium and occasionally potassium.

tingletech 7y ago

I just learned about autophagy (literally self-eating) this week reading about fasting and the Prolon Fast Mimicking Diet. This is why fasting is popular with cancer patients, your body maybe will start eating the cancer cells. https://greatist.com/live/autophagy-fasting-exercise#definition https://greatist.com/live/autophagy-fasting-exercise#definit... https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet/ https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet/