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There seems to be a culture of proud ignorance around math more-so than other subjects. While I am sure there is some engineering student out there griping abou

by Gunax 7y ago

There seems to be a culture of proud ignorance around math more-so than other subjects. While I am sure there is some engineering student out there griping about having to take a psychology course, they don't seem to complain as much as when non-mathy people have to study math. I think it is a mistake for our education system to treat math as something superfluous and abstract from daily life. While neither Laplace transforms nor Shakespearen analysis are necessary to live, the former is probably more useful than the latter.

mistersquid 7y ago
> While neither Laplace transforms nor Shakespearen analysis are necessary to live, the former is probably more useful than the latter. Without context, such an overbroad generalization is at best meaningless. If someone is choosing between potential spouses, or addressing a dishonest business colleague, or deciding how best to recognize a selfless samaritan, few branches of mathematics would be of any use. Whereas, one of Shakespeare's hundred and an half sonnets might be of direct "use". Usefulness and utility depend on context. Contextless generalizations about the value of different branches of human knowledge is generally meaningless.
- watwut 7y ago
  If you are using sonnets to decide that, everybody would be better off if you did study Laplace transformations instead. It is harder to be confused with real life.
watwut 7y ago
> While I am sure there is some engineering student out there griping about having to take a psychology course, they don't seem to complain as much as when non-mathy people have to study math. I don't know in your school, but in our people would complain and complain and complain about even theoretically having humanistic course compulsory. And those courses were designed to be free grade and any expectation on student to actually put effort into it caused complains. I did not wanted them either, it is not like I would just complain about other people. Nobody expected tech students to read Shakespear much less analyse it.
matwood 7y ago
> While I am sure there is some engineering student out there griping about having to take a psychology course, they don't seem to complain as much as when non-mathy people have to study math. This is the underpinning of every conversation where engineers say college is a waste of money. If anything, I see engineers complaining more loudly about taking any course that isn't directly related to engineering. This not only includes the humanities, but also things like business. > While neither Laplace transforms nor Shakespearen analysis are necessary to live, the former is probably more useful than the latter. Learning Shakespeare is typically tied to learning how to communicate through reading, writing, and comprehension. IMO, that is much more generally useful than learning anything about a Laplace transform.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  > Learning Shakespeare is typically tied to learning how to communicate through reading, writing, and comprehension. IMO, that is much more generally useful than learning anything about a Laplace transform. Learning to do a poor quality imitation of early twentieth century literary criticism is at best a really inefficient way to teach communication through reading, writing and comprehension. Vocational pseudo reasons to teach the humanities are and always have been horse shit, detracting from the pleasures of those who are actually interested, whether as teachers or students.
- Gunax 7y ago
  If learning about Shakespearean sonnets is actually about building writing and reading skills, then I would say the same for Laplace transforms: they are about building logic and math skills and not about actual laplace transforms per se. I suppose I agree with you, but I think math is not given enough credit.
dclowd9901 7y ago
Maybe we ought to meet people where they are. What if math class was a series of practical problems that the students had to figure out together and make proofs for and the teacher has the classes compete with one another for progress through the lessons? You could make sure no one gets left behind by having a test with a minimum threshold of passing scores. Gets those less motivated, yet competitive kids behind it, even if they couldn’t give a hoot about math. Plus it’ll make nerds heroes!

by Gunax 7y ago

mistersquid 7y ago

> While neither Laplace transforms nor Shakespearen analysis are necessary to live, the former is probably more useful than the latter. Without context, such an overbroad generalization is at best meaningless. If someone is choosing between potential spouses, or addressing a dishonest business colleague, or deciding how best to recognize a selfless samaritan, few branches of mathematics would be of any use. Whereas, one of Shakespeare's hundred and an half sonnets might be of direct "use". Usefulness and utility depend on context. Contextless generalizations about the value of different branches of human knowledge is generally meaningless.

watwut 7y ago
If you are using sonnets to decide that, everybody would be better off if you did study Laplace transformations instead. It is harder to be confused with real life.

watwut 7y ago

> While I am sure there is some engineering student out there griping about having to take a psychology course, they don't seem to complain as much as when non-mathy people have to study math. I don't know in your school, but in our people would complain and complain and complain about even theoretically having humanistic course compulsory. And those courses were designed to be free grade and any expectation on student to actually put effort into it caused complains. I did not wanted them either, it is not like I would just complain about other people. Nobody expected tech students to read Shakespear much less analyse it.

matwood 7y ago

> While I am sure there is some engineering student out there griping about having to take a psychology course, they don't seem to complain as much as when non-mathy people have to study math. This is the underpinning of every conversation where engineers say college is a waste of money. If anything, I see engineers complaining more loudly about taking any course that isn't directly related to engineering. This not only includes the humanities, but also things like business. > While neither Laplace transforms nor Shakespearen analysis are necessary to live, the former is probably more useful than the latter. Learning Shakespeare is typically tied to learning how to communicate through reading, writing, and comprehension. IMO, that is much more generally useful than learning anything about a Laplace transform.

barry-cotter 7y ago
> Learning Shakespeare is typically tied to learning how to communicate through reading, writing, and comprehension. IMO, that is much more generally useful than learning anything about a Laplace transform. Learning to do a poor quality imitation of early twentieth century literary criticism is at best a really inefficient way to teach communication through reading, writing and comprehension. Vocational pseudo reasons to teach the humanities are and always have been horse shit, detracting from the pleasures of those who are actually interested, whether as teachers or students.
Gunax 7y ago
If learning about Shakespearean sonnets is actually about building writing and reading skills, then I would say the same for Laplace transforms: they are about building logic and math skills and not about actual laplace transforms per se. I suppose I agree with you, but I think math is not given enough credit.

dclowd9901 7y ago

Maybe we ought to meet people where they are. What if math class was a series of practical problems that the students had to figure out together and make proofs for and the teacher has the classes compete with one another for progress through the lessons? You could make sure no one gets left behind by having a test with a minimum threshold of passing scores. Gets those less motivated, yet competitive kids behind it, even if they couldn’t give a hoot about math. Plus it’ll make nerds heroes!