10 ms·
Here are the main allegations: 1. In or about April 2019, GRIFFITH traveled to the DPRK to attend and present at the “Pyongyang Blockchain and Cryptocurrency C
by woah 7y ago
Here are the main allegations:
1. In or about April 2019, GRIFFITH traveled to the DPRK to attend and present at the “Pyongyang Blockchain and Cryptocurrency Conference” (the “DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference”).
2. After the DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference, GRIFFITH began formulating plans to facilitate the exchange of cryptocurrency between the DPRK and South Korea, despite knowing that assisting with such an exchange would violate sanctions against the DPRK.
3. GRIFFITH also encouraged other U.S. citizens to travel to North Korea, including to attend the same DPRK Cryptocurrency Conference the following year.
4. Finally, GRIFFITH announced his intention to renounce his U.S. citizenship and began researching how to purchase citizenship from other countries.
I wonder if 1-3 basically just amount to speaking in person about technology that is very well documented on public web sites?
As far as I'm aware, 4 isn't a crime or even immoral in any way.
This seems like it's basically just a real-life scenario of what people were worried about in the 1990's "crypto wars", but with a very unsympathetic defendant and an especially evil foreign power.
Although if he was paid to go there then it would seem to violate whatever commercial sanctions are in place.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tptacek 7y agoLet me simplify the accusation further, so we don't need to noodle as much about it: Griffith asked the State Department if he could attend and present at the Pyongyang Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency, because attendance at the Pyongyang Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency almost certainly violates sanctions on North Korea that are enforced by countries around the world very much including the United States. Unsurprisingly, the State Department told Griffith he could not in fact present or attend the Pyongyang Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency. Regardless, Griffith attended and presented at the Pyongyang Conference on Blockchain and Cryptocurrency. Then he (apparently? and despite previously taking some marginal steps to conceal the issuance of his DPRK visa?) tweeted his visa. That's not a crime, so much as an indicator of the level of opsec at play here. Neither, by the way, is his indication that he might want to switch citizenship; the only criminal count he's charged with is the single one at the top of the complaint, Conspiracy To Violate The IEEP, most likely in the enhanced configuration (conspiring with a state involved with nuclear/chemical/biological weapons); guideline base range 5-6 years.
- 18monthsin 7y agoVolunteering to help out enemies develop sophisticated money laundering schemes is most certainly a crime, you know what they want to do with the information. Just like flying to mexico to present to cartel leaders about how to utilize hlockchain to avoid shipping cash is illegal.
- tptacek 7y agoIt seems like in this case he didn't so much have to wonder about whether what he was doing was a crime, since he asked and was informed by the State Department that it was.
- mapgrep 7y agoYou’ve moved rather quickly from reductively summarizing the accusation to accepting it as fact. Last I checked, not everything federal prosecutors say turns out to be true.
- tptacek 7y agoIt is not my general inclination to believe that the DOJ routinely manufactures simple statements of fact out of whole cloth. Others on HN do have that inclination, sometimes powerfully. Regardless: (1) this is an unusually straightforward criminal complaint; it is short, spare, and composed principally out of simple falsifiable assertions, and (2) we're just randos on message boards talking and have no obligation to continuously and tediously disclaim that the DOJ has the burden of proving its assertions at trial. We all know it does.
- mapgrep 7y agoDOJ does in fact do exactly that, and I’m not so sure about your own general inclination, actually, but let’s not make this about you.
- 7y ago
- alwayseasy 7y agoNo, the allegation is: "Virgil Griffith provided highly technical information to North Korea, knowing that this information could be used to help North Korea launder money and evade sanctions." What you wrote is basically the DA storytelling with the string of evidence that will help convince a jury. While on their own, 1-3-4 are not criminal, they reveal the defendant's mindset.
- Mathnerd314 7y agoPer https://nkcryptocon.com/FAQ/ https://nkcryptocon.com/FAQ/: "For your convenience we will provide a paper visa separated from your passport, so there will be no evidence of your entry to the country. Your participation will never be disclosed from our side unless you publicize it on your own." It doesn't appear to be paid, 3400 euro fee to attend.
- microcolonel 7y agoI wonder how it's even legal for One.com (77.111.240.88 [One.com Denmark]) to do business with NK in hosting that website. Isn't this exactly the sort of thing we're meant to be preventing them from accessing? Anyone complicit in, and profiting from, money laundering for North Korea is effectively a murderer and rapist, at least.
- azernik 7y agoDenmark does not have the same sanctions laws as the US.
- throwaway2048 7y agoLooks like he neglected to read the "unless you publicize it on your own." part of that sentence.
- no_opinions 7y ago> Your participation will never be disclosed from our side unless you publicize it on your own. Blackmail / extortion / compromise trap right there. Don't email em, don't talk to em. If you're an American and you go there, they have dirt on you and can threaten to reveal it if you don't play ball with them. Shame on you, North Korea! Also that feel when the only tech smarts you can get is cryptocurrency folks
- thaumasiotes 7y ago> Blackmail / extortion / compromise trap right there. Don't email em, don't talk to em. > If you're an American and you go there, they have dirt on you and can threaten to reveal it if you don't play ball with them. Perhaps, but they'd lose the ability to promise other people that their relationship with North Korea was safely secret. I wouldn't worry about this; I suspect North Korea really does want to maintain its ability to have skilled foreigners come and help if they're so inclined. I understand some people maintain two passports, one for Israel and the other for the rest of the Middle East. This is a similar thing. I wouldn't expect Iran to insist on disclosing an American's visit to the US government either.
- newguy1234 7y agoAll this shows is why you should use high-anonymity and secure communications systems. Encrypt everything. Use alias for everything. The United States government or any other government is not your friend. They are a threat to your liberty and freedoms.
- trentnix 7y agoI agree, I don't trust the US government either. But there is some irony that Mr. Freedom took significant efforts to assist a dictator who denies all of his subjects liberty and freedom (and usually in brutal fashion). Good thing he didn't try to steal a propaganda poster while he was there.
- sodosopa 7y ago> Good thing he didn’t try to steal a propaganda poster while he was there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_Warmbier Imagine what they do to their own citizens. Virgil Griffith apparently was ok doing business with a murderous dictator.
- ShorsHammer 7y agoFind it hard to believe that this particular person actively wanted to help DPRK leaders rather than the North Korean people on the whole. These issues tend to get caught up with handwavey dismissals built from the slim amount of information handed out to us from news soundbites. If you or I wanted to interact with a North Korean today, how would we go about that? How would we trade with them or send a donation? It's funny to see the difference in attitudes between how South Koreans view the north and how westerners view them. They are starkly different.
- throwaway2048 7y agoIts right here on the conference's webpage "The interest of participants to continue building bridges of friendship and collaboration with the DPR of Korea, as well as the exclusive environment of confidentiality and contacts with the highest government officials and engineers" What do you suppose that entails? Do you think in a state like North Korea is going to permit anyone North Korean except state officials into a conference like this, triply so with wording like that? https://nkcryptocon.com/ https://nkcryptocon.com/ We already know beyond a shadow of a doubt that North Korea is trading in crypto currency to fund their regime. https://bitcoinist.com/un-north-korea-accumulating-cryptocurrency-for-weapons-programs/ https://bitcoinist.com/un-north-korea-accumulating-cryptocur... https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/N-Korea-at-crossroads/North-Korea-stole-cryptocurrency-via-hacking-UN-panel https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/N-Korea-at-crossroads/Nort... This conference had absolutely nothing to do with enabling regular North Koreans to access cryptocurrency, they don't even have access to the internet to begin with.
- microcolonel 7y ago4 isn't so much an allegation of a crime, but a fact supporting the notion that the accused knew what he was doing is unlawful. Also, you're missing some of the allegations.
- tathougies 7y agoPurchasing citizenship via bribes is against American law. It is illegal for anyone connected to america in any way to make or attempt to make foreign or domestic bribes
- IIAOPSW 7y agoThere are countries where you can pay for citizenship and it isn't a bribe.
- adrr 7y agoLike the US. https://www.artoncapital.com/global-citizen-programs/usa-eb-5/ https://www.artoncapital.com/global-citizen-programs/usa-eb-...
- tathougies 7y agoI doubt north korea is one of them.
- fredgrott 7y agoitem 2 could fall under rico same as Trump offering to ask for bribe..its illegal to ask for a felony to be committed. a former IL governor got caught in such a thing and prosecuted all because he asked for someone to commit a felony in connection to bribing