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There are a ton of gremlins in Tesla just waiting to go off like time bombs. I recently got a very expensive repair just outside of warranty where the car simpl

There are a ton of gremlins in Tesla just waiting to go off like time bombs. I recently got a very expensive repair just outside of warranty where the car simply refused to charge. Paid nearly 3000 for the diagnosis and repair for the car to start charging again - we are talking about a car with no wear and tear parts for the most part costing nearly 3K because a chip somewhere between the charge port and battery failed. My whole reason for buying it was that this would be the ultimate reliable car without ICE or brake wear, leaving tires as the only consumable. Guess I was wrong.

Abishek_Muthian 7y ago
Even in combustion engine cars if ECM buckles up it usually is expensive to repair(at least in my part of the world). I guess with a car like Tesla, rich with electronics & unavailability of parts to 3rd party service centers; repairs can be very expensive.
- Y-Bopinator 7y ago
  ECUs made in the last 10-20 years don’t really ever fail. Bosch has really figured things out and produces reliable ECUs for most OEMs. The repair on your Tesla will cost more than a motor or transmission replacement on a conventional vehicle. Tesla owners should file a class action lawsuit to force Tesla to extend their warranty to cover this issue. Tesla will try to fight it and make you pay out of pocket.
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    > Tesla owners should file a class action lawsuit to force Tesla to extend their warranty to cover this issue. Why is it Tesla's responsibility to fix the car out of warranty?
    - Marazan 7y ago
      Because their design decision means this part is guaranteed to fail after an unreasonably short time.
      - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        But isn't that the consumer's fault for agreeing to buy a car with "an unreasonably short" warranty? If Tesla said the warranty lasts however long, why would you feel entitled to legal protection for it to last longer? If you're saying this part is intentionally designed to fail shortly after the warranty expires, then I understand your point. Is that what you mean? EDIT: The way I see it is if I buy a car with a 3 year warranty and something fails after 4 years, it's not the manufacturer's responsibility to fix it because the warranty has expired. Why do you think it is?
        Aloha 7y ago
        Auto manufacturers commonly do targeted warranty extensions and recalls for design and manufacturing defects outside of warranty. Ford for example did, with failing intake manifolds and the issue where the engine would eject spark plugs on Modular V8 engines. Tesla in particular is screwing over the people it needs the most, by making boneheaded component choices.
        OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        Fair point. I don't know why I had a mental block and the idea of a recall never entered into my mind. I completely agree Tesla cheaped out on this part, I just wasn't convinced they are responsible for fixing it. I'm still not sure this justifies a class action lawsuit (I don't really feel strongly one way or the other), but I at least understand why Tesla might be held accountable for their actions.
        Aloha 7y ago
        Your argument is not totally unreasonable - but not within industry norms. Also Tesla is the manufacturer for electric cars in the public's eye, if they get a reputation for unreliability it will set the technology back decades. (see the Oldsmobile Diesel engine from the 80's) So for a variety of reasons, I'd argue they have a moral responsibility to fix it, INAL, so it's unknown to me if they have a legal or regulatory responsibility too.
    - Narkov 7y ago
      It is striking how different the attitude to this is in Australia. All products and services in Australia need to be fit for purpose. There's no strict definition for this but it basically means if you are selling a "premium" product, your warranty lasts for however long is reasonable in the eyes of the courts and not what the manufacturer says. It is very pro-consumer. It would be reasonable to assume that a $40k-$100k car would last 10+ years. Obviously this doesn't cover consumables but bad memory cards would definitely be covered.
      - kube-system 7y ago
        US law also has a very similar provision https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-315 https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-315
  - inferiorhuman 7y ago
    ECUs made in the last 10-20 years don’t really ever fail. Bosch has really figured things out and produces reliable ECUs for most OEMs. Sure they do. Take a look at the FICM failures with the Ford 6.0 diesel. In the gasoline world you'll come across failed injector or ignition drivers if you look hard enough. Failures due to environmental causes (like the wiring harness wicking hydraulic fluid into the control unit itself) are a thing as well. It's not engine related, but BMW's late 90s-early 2000s five series uses a computer to control its lights. The failure mode is that your lights stay on as long as the battery is hooked up (fail safe). Unfortunately the IC that BMW used was discontinued by Infineon. I think a surface mount version is still available, but ultimately yeah these things wear out and you're largely at the mercy of the OEM.
    - Aloha 7y ago
      Injectors and ignition coils are effectively wear parts however on an ICE engine. Though for balance here, I just had to replace the fuel injector on one of my cars, it lasted 30 years however, so I'm not too upset by the 300 bucks it cost to replace it.
      - inferiorhuman 7y ago
        Injectors and ignition coils are effectively wear parts however on an ICE engine. Injector drivers and ignition drivers are part of the control unit.
        barrkel 7y ago
        I'd strongly dispute that. Why not include the spark plugs as well? And the fuel pump? The ECU is a computer, a packaged bundle of chips which plugs in to wires and does nothing but communicate to other components via those wires. That's what an electronic control unit means. The driven devices, amplifiers etc. are under the control of the control unit. They are not part of the control unit. They're located in areas subject to much more heat and mechanical stress, and in most cases (ignition coils excepted) are mechanical in function.
  - fg6hr 7y ago
    I believe Tesla has competent lawyers who would advice to sneak the binding arbitration clause in the purchase contract.
  - archi42 7y ago
    ECUs aren't perfect. On my old 2003 Volvo a common problem was solder points in the instruments panel failing after 8 to 10 years, and for the central ECU the connectors could corrode due to moisture. Luckily I wasn't affected by either. Of course Bosch probably doesn't perform "disruptive" software fuck-ups such as Tesla did here, and if they do, chances are good out-of-warranty replacements are free or at least come at a reduced price. (But at least an EV doesn't have issues like VWs "maintenance free timing chain" skipping a link or two after 70kkm/50kmi)
    - jdsully 7y ago
      That's right around the time ROHS was introduced. The entire electronics industry had massive growing pains in the switch to lead free solder.
      - archi42 7y ago
        Late reply, but nope, iirc automotive was one of the industries which were/are exempt from the whole lead-free stuff because the ECU are safety critical.
  - Jamwinner 7y ago
    Non-failing ecus are down to overspecd components, and obsessive supply chain management, given a decent board design. One single capacitor swapped out for a cheaper spec one can brick a huge percentage of correctly produced boards. Tesla is new, and this is a growing pain, and result of not hiring, or perhaps heeding the advice of, those familiar with industry best practices.
- netsharc 7y ago
  The comparison would be fair if Tesla didn't cheap out and take shortcuts. Consumer grade flash memory? Non-automotive grade displays: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... ? Dodgy build quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSLTNjGI8hw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSLTNjGI8hw ? Maybe "Made by Tesla" is the new "Made in China".
  - hef19898 7y ago
    But that is disruption of the automotive world! Not sure why people consider breaking best practices without understanding them in the first place is a good idea...
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      See also: Chesterton’s Fence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fen...
  - RealityVoid 7y ago
    I think you overestimate the quality of "made for automotive" and underestimate the importance that SW has in cars. These were essentially SW issues. This kind of SW fuckup can will and does happen for bigger OEM's all the time.
    - HarryHirsch 7y ago
      Tesla definitively has a problem with hardware design decisions. Remember the Model S touchscreen issue? Somehow their designers forgot that cars heat up in summer and instead of automotive used consumer grade hardware! Meanwhile companies like Garmin and Magellan manage to build GPS devices that work just fine even though they spend their whole lives in the passenger compartment. They did this since the beginning, I never heard that you should stay away from this or that manufacturer of GPS units because the touchscreen fails.
- Nition 7y ago
  Is any car company making a simple electric car without fancy features, or at least one where they're optional? Even the Nissan Leaf now has all sorts of high-end features. I'd much rather have a simple, cheaper, reliable car with less points of failure. Edit: Thanks for the suggestions!
  - wldlyinaccurate 7y ago
    Tesla fans will tell you otherwise, but pretty much all of the EVs from "traditional" automakers are more reliable than Tesla vehicles. Cheaper & easier to service too. I've heard very good things about the Nissan LEAF, Hyundai Ioniq, Hyundai Kona, and Kia Niro. It might be a coincidence but all of these cars are packaged more like traditional cars, i.e. popping the hood allows you to access many of the components.
    - tempestn 7y ago
      Unfortunately if you're looking for a mid- to high-end EV that isn't an SUV or crossover, your choices are still pretty limited, for now. There's the Taycan now, but it's not really in the same price point as the Model S, let alone the Model 3. Maybe the Audi e-tron sedan when it comes out will be a bit more reasonable (relatively speaking).
    - pmorici 7y ago
      More reliable? Didn’t leafs of the same time period of the Tesla models being discussed here have horrible battery degradation issues? Hyundai and Kia electrics are too new to the market to know if there will be serious issues
      - kozak 7y ago
        All those old Leafs with "horrible battery degradation" from the USA are now taxis here in Ukraine. A car model needs to be VERY reliable and maintainable to be popular as a taxi here, so it's a high praise for the Leaf. The batteries don't degrade straight to zero, they are still very usable. Battery degradation only helped to lower the price of an otherwise very nice car.
gonesilent 7y ago
Well now that you're out of warranty you no longer need to go to the dealer so to speak, you can go to aftermarket repair shops. Yes these do exist for Teslas.
- davewritescode 7y ago
  It’s quite risky to do so. Tesla has locked people out of super chargers for unauthorized repairs before.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Wow Tesla have big brass balls. Charging exorbitant fees for designed-in flaws and intentionally bricking it if you fix it yourself? The next time Elon's house gets vandalized we won't have to wonder why...
fg6hr 7y ago
That's kinda expected. Once a car becomes a pile of buggy software, someone needs to maintain it and fix bugs. That someone is called a SW engineer and happily charges 200-300/hour. Add on top of that the service dep fees that can be substantial (e.g. I pay ~150/hour for mechanical repairs, but the actual mechanic looks like a guy who works for a minimum wage).
- ovi256 7y ago
  The high hourly pay of a software engineer is not significant when that high cost is spread over hundreds of thousands of units sold. A corrolary of this is that when it is not spread over a high number of units, in a niche product, it will be very expensive so we will see even less niche products as software takes over more functions.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
davewritescode 7y ago
This is where I get annoyed at Tesla. Everything is a wear and tear part. When I was considering a Model3 they harped on how reliable it would be. I still passed.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  Yup. The ICE engine reliability issue is more or less solved. I have built hotrodded engines in my garage that are still going strong at 275,000 miles. The real issue is that tesla reinvented the wheel with everything else too. Other solved problems like rustproofing, doorseals, and component access were overlooked for technology adoption. I admire the bold move, but it was not one destined for reliability. At the end of the day, the tesla is more complex, even in the drivetrain, than my honda civic, and costs quite a lot more, even under ideal conditions.
  - WhompingWindows 7y ago
    Sorry, how is the Tesla more complex in the drive train than a Honda Civic? The sheer number of moving parts in the Civic makes your argument highly questionable...
- WhompingWindows 7y ago
  Don't they crack down on parts suppliers? Why can't they operate a warehouse and keep spare parts for all their loyal, early adopter customers?
- mister_hn 7y ago
  You haven't seen any recent Mercedes Benz then. Full of electronics, if something breaks up, you're screwed. Only the gearbox (automatic) will cost you not less than 8000€. ECU fails? Add 5000€
  - RaceWon 7y ago
    > You haven't seen any recent Mercedes Benz then. Full of electronics I had to dump an 09 VW GTI (I'm in the US) about four years ago with only 60K miles on it. The ABS computer failed; a $4k repair. As a side note I traded it for a new 2016 Jetta Sport; which was the worst car I ever had, and the last VW I'll ever buy. I traded the Jetta for a 2019 Hyundai Kona which I like but you can't drive it with the forward collision system engaged. I had always shut that off from day 1.... except a month ago I didn't and that sucker SLAMMED on the brakes when I was lane merging during a busy time--I was Not being aggressive just assertive. Only by luck no one slammed into the back of me. I can't imagine Anyone trusting their lives to a self-driving car.. it makes no logical sense to do that!
agumonkey 7y ago
yeah we traded analog wear for bit rot. There's hope though, maybe computer-like standardization will emerge, making part and diagnosis cost lower.
- Forbo 7y ago
  We need right to repair for this to be a realty. Right now we're fighting corporations for control of our possessions.
crankylinuxuser 7y ago
And for many of us Tesla was the biggest intersection between DRM, @InternetOfShit , and #righttorepair . And even just the whiff of one of those was enough to be a hard no. And for those of you whom know their history, this has all the hallmark signs of anti-trust.
lm28469 7y ago
> My whole reason for buying it was that this would be the ultimate reliable car without ICE or brake wear The mechanical parts of a well maintained ICE car rarely die for no reason. Electronics on the other hand...
- Tade0 7y ago
  Not necessarily. Parts in some models offered by some manufacturers are simply poorly made, and are bound not to last long, regardless of maintenance.
parliament32 7y ago
Probably them pinching pennies, not using automotive-grade components. This keeps happening: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Enjoy replacing literally every part of your car if you expect it to last close to a decade.
JudasGoat 7y ago
It certainly seems to be accentuated by the difficulty in obtaining both parts and schematics for a Tesla.

Abishek_Muthian 7y ago

Even in combustion engine cars if ECM buckles up it usually is expensive to repair(at least in my part of the world). I guess with a car like Tesla, rich with electronics & unavailability of parts to 3rd party service centers; repairs can be very expensive.

Y-Bopinator 7y ago
ECUs made in the last 10-20 years don’t really ever fail. Bosch has really figured things out and produces reliable ECUs for most OEMs. The repair on your Tesla will cost more than a motor or transmission replacement on a conventional vehicle. Tesla owners should file a class action lawsuit to force Tesla to extend their warranty to cover this issue. Tesla will try to fight it and make you pay out of pocket.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  > Tesla owners should file a class action lawsuit to force Tesla to extend their warranty to cover this issue. Why is it Tesla's responsibility to fix the car out of warranty?
  - Marazan 7y ago
    Because their design decision means this part is guaranteed to fail after an unreasonably short time.
    - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
      But isn't that the consumer's fault for agreeing to buy a car with "an unreasonably short" warranty? If Tesla said the warranty lasts however long, why would you feel entitled to legal protection for it to last longer? If you're saying this part is intentionally designed to fail shortly after the warranty expires, then I understand your point. Is that what you mean? EDIT: The way I see it is if I buy a car with a 3 year warranty and something fails after 4 years, it's not the manufacturer's responsibility to fix it because the warranty has expired. Why do you think it is?
      - Aloha 7y ago
        Auto manufacturers commonly do targeted warranty extensions and recalls for design and manufacturing defects outside of warranty. Ford for example did, with failing intake manifolds and the issue where the engine would eject spark plugs on Modular V8 engines. Tesla in particular is screwing over the people it needs the most, by making boneheaded component choices.
        OnlineGladiator 7y ago
        Fair point. I don't know why I had a mental block and the idea of a recall never entered into my mind. I completely agree Tesla cheaped out on this part, I just wasn't convinced they are responsible for fixing it. I'm still not sure this justifies a class action lawsuit (I don't really feel strongly one way or the other), but I at least understand why Tesla might be held accountable for their actions.
        Aloha 7y ago
        Your argument is not totally unreasonable - but not within industry norms. Also Tesla is the manufacturer for electric cars in the public's eye, if they get a reputation for unreliability it will set the technology back decades. (see the Oldsmobile Diesel engine from the 80's) So for a variety of reasons, I'd argue they have a moral responsibility to fix it, INAL, so it's unknown to me if they have a legal or regulatory responsibility too.
  - Narkov 7y ago
    It is striking how different the attitude to this is in Australia. All products and services in Australia need to be fit for purpose. There's no strict definition for this but it basically means if you are selling a "premium" product, your warranty lasts for however long is reasonable in the eyes of the courts and not what the manufacturer says. It is very pro-consumer. It would be reasonable to assume that a $40k-$100k car would last 10+ years. Obviously this doesn't cover consumables but bad memory cards would definitely be covered.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      US law also has a very similar provision https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-315 https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-315
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  ECUs made in the last 10-20 years don’t really ever fail. Bosch has really figured things out and produces reliable ECUs for most OEMs. Sure they do. Take a look at the FICM failures with the Ford 6.0 diesel. In the gasoline world you'll come across failed injector or ignition drivers if you look hard enough. Failures due to environmental causes (like the wiring harness wicking hydraulic fluid into the control unit itself) are a thing as well. It's not engine related, but BMW's late 90s-early 2000s five series uses a computer to control its lights. The failure mode is that your lights stay on as long as the battery is hooked up (fail safe). Unfortunately the IC that BMW used was discontinued by Infineon. I think a surface mount version is still available, but ultimately yeah these things wear out and you're largely at the mercy of the OEM.
  - Aloha 7y ago
    Injectors and ignition coils are effectively wear parts however on an ICE engine. Though for balance here, I just had to replace the fuel injector on one of my cars, it lasted 30 years however, so I'm not too upset by the 300 bucks it cost to replace it.
    - inferiorhuman 7y ago
      Injectors and ignition coils are effectively wear parts however on an ICE engine. Injector drivers and ignition drivers are part of the control unit.
      - barrkel 7y ago
        I'd strongly dispute that. Why not include the spark plugs as well? And the fuel pump? The ECU is a computer, a packaged bundle of chips which plugs in to wires and does nothing but communicate to other components via those wires. That's what an electronic control unit means. The driven devices, amplifiers etc. are under the control of the control unit. They are not part of the control unit. They're located in areas subject to much more heat and mechanical stress, and in most cases (ignition coils excepted) are mechanical in function.
- fg6hr 7y ago
  I believe Tesla has competent lawyers who would advice to sneak the binding arbitration clause in the purchase contract.
- archi42 7y ago
  ECUs aren't perfect. On my old 2003 Volvo a common problem was solder points in the instruments panel failing after 8 to 10 years, and for the central ECU the connectors could corrode due to moisture. Luckily I wasn't affected by either. Of course Bosch probably doesn't perform "disruptive" software fuck-ups such as Tesla did here, and if they do, chances are good out-of-warranty replacements are free or at least come at a reduced price. (But at least an EV doesn't have issues like VWs "maintenance free timing chain" skipping a link or two after 70kkm/50kmi)
  - jdsully 7y ago
    That's right around the time ROHS was introduced. The entire electronics industry had massive growing pains in the switch to lead free solder.
    - archi42 7y ago
      Late reply, but nope, iirc automotive was one of the industries which were/are exempt from the whole lead-free stuff because the ECU are safety critical.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  Non-failing ecus are down to overspecd components, and obsessive supply chain management, given a decent board design. One single capacitor swapped out for a cheaper spec one can brick a huge percentage of correctly produced boards. Tesla is new, and this is a growing pain, and result of not hiring, or perhaps heeding the advice of, those familiar with industry best practices.
netsharc 7y ago
The comparison would be fair if Tesla didn't cheap out and take shortcuts. Consumer grade flash memory? Non-automotive grade displays: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... ? Dodgy build quality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSLTNjGI8hw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSLTNjGI8hw ? Maybe "Made by Tesla" is the new "Made in China".
- hef19898 7y ago
  But that is disruption of the automotive world! Not sure why people consider breaking best practices without understanding them in the first place is a good idea...
  - sokoloff 7y ago
    See also: Chesterton’s Fence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fence https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Chesterton%27s_fen...
- RealityVoid 7y ago
  I think you overestimate the quality of "made for automotive" and underestimate the importance that SW has in cars. These were essentially SW issues. This kind of SW fuckup can will and does happen for bigger OEM's all the time.
  - HarryHirsch 7y ago
    Tesla definitively has a problem with hardware design decisions. Remember the Model S touchscreen issue? Somehow their designers forgot that cars heat up in summer and instead of automotive used consumer grade hardware! Meanwhile companies like Garmin and Magellan manage to build GPS devices that work just fine even though they spend their whole lives in the passenger compartment. They did this since the beginning, I never heard that you should stay away from this or that manufacturer of GPS units because the touchscreen fails.
Nition 7y ago
Is any car company making a simple electric car without fancy features, or at least one where they're optional? Even the Nissan Leaf now has all sorts of high-end features. I'd much rather have a simple, cheaper, reliable car with less points of failure. Edit: Thanks for the suggestions!
- wldlyinaccurate 7y ago
  Tesla fans will tell you otherwise, but pretty much all of the EVs from "traditional" automakers are more reliable than Tesla vehicles. Cheaper & easier to service too. I've heard very good things about the Nissan LEAF, Hyundai Ioniq, Hyundai Kona, and Kia Niro. It might be a coincidence but all of these cars are packaged more like traditional cars, i.e. popping the hood allows you to access many of the components.
  - tempestn 7y ago
    Unfortunately if you're looking for a mid- to high-end EV that isn't an SUV or crossover, your choices are still pretty limited, for now. There's the Taycan now, but it's not really in the same price point as the Model S, let alone the Model 3. Maybe the Audi e-tron sedan when it comes out will be a bit more reasonable (relatively speaking).
  - pmorici 7y ago
    More reliable? Didn’t leafs of the same time period of the Tesla models being discussed here have horrible battery degradation issues? Hyundai and Kia electrics are too new to the market to know if there will be serious issues
    - kozak 7y ago
      All those old Leafs with "horrible battery degradation" from the USA are now taxis here in Ukraine. A car model needs to be VERY reliable and maintainable to be popular as a taxi here, so it's a high praise for the Leaf. The batteries don't degrade straight to zero, they are still very usable. Battery degradation only helped to lower the price of an otherwise very nice car.

gonesilent 7y ago

Well now that you're out of warranty you no longer need to go to the dealer so to speak, you can go to aftermarket repair shops. Yes these do exist for Teslas.

davewritescode 7y ago
It’s quite risky to do so. Tesla has locked people out of super chargers for unauthorized repairs before.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Wow Tesla have big brass balls. Charging exorbitant fees for designed-in flaws and intentionally bricking it if you fix it yourself? The next time Elon's house gets vandalized we won't have to wonder why...

fg6hr 7y ago

That's kinda expected. Once a car becomes a pile of buggy software, someone needs to maintain it and fix bugs. That someone is called a SW engineer and happily charges 200-300/hour. Add on top of that the service dep fees that can be substantial (e.g. I pay ~150/hour for mechanical repairs, but the actual mechanic looks like a guy who works for a minimum wage).

ovi256 7y ago
The high hourly pay of a software engineer is not significant when that high cost is spread over hundreds of thousands of units sold. A corrolary of this is that when it is not spread over a high number of units, in a niche product, it will be very expensive so we will see even less niche products as software takes over more functions.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

davewritescode 7y ago

This is where I get annoyed at Tesla. Everything is a wear and tear part. When I was considering a Model3 they harped on how reliable it would be. I still passed.

Jamwinner 7y ago
Yup. The ICE engine reliability issue is more or less solved. I have built hotrodded engines in my garage that are still going strong at 275,000 miles. The real issue is that tesla reinvented the wheel with everything else too. Other solved problems like rustproofing, doorseals, and component access were overlooked for technology adoption. I admire the bold move, but it was not one destined for reliability. At the end of the day, the tesla is more complex, even in the drivetrain, than my honda civic, and costs quite a lot more, even under ideal conditions.
- WhompingWindows 7y ago
  Sorry, how is the Tesla more complex in the drive train than a Honda Civic? The sheer number of moving parts in the Civic makes your argument highly questionable...
WhompingWindows 7y ago
Don't they crack down on parts suppliers? Why can't they operate a warehouse and keep spare parts for all their loyal, early adopter customers?
mister_hn 7y ago
You haven't seen any recent Mercedes Benz then. Full of electronics, if something breaks up, you're screwed. Only the gearbox (automatic) will cost you not less than 8000€. ECU fails? Add 5000€
- RaceWon 7y ago
  > You haven't seen any recent Mercedes Benz then. Full of electronics I had to dump an 09 VW GTI (I'm in the US) about four years ago with only 60K miles on it. The ABS computer failed; a $4k repair. As a side note I traded it for a new 2016 Jetta Sport; which was the worst car I ever had, and the last VW I'll ever buy. I traded the Jetta for a 2019 Hyundai Kona which I like but you can't drive it with the forward collision system engaged. I had always shut that off from day 1.... except a month ago I didn't and that sucker SLAMMED on the brakes when I was lane merging during a busy time--I was Not being aggressive just assertive. Only by luck no one slammed into the back of me. I can't imagine Anyone trusting their lives to a self-driving car.. it makes no logical sense to do that!

agumonkey 7y ago

yeah we traded analog wear for bit rot. There's hope though, maybe computer-like standardization will emerge, making part and diagnosis cost lower.

Forbo 7y ago
We need right to repair for this to be a realty. Right now we're fighting corporations for control of our possessions.

crankylinuxuser 7y ago

And for many of us Tesla was the biggest intersection between DRM, @InternetOfShit , and #righttorepair . And even just the whiff of one of those was enough to be a hard no. And for those of you whom know their history, this has all the hallmark signs of anti-trust.

lm28469 7y ago

> My whole reason for buying it was that this would be the ultimate reliable car without ICE or brake wear The mechanical parts of a well maintained ICE car rarely die for no reason. Electronics on the other hand...

Tade0 7y ago
Not necessarily. Parts in some models offered by some manufacturers are simply poorly made, and are bound not to last long, regardless of maintenance.

parliament32 7y ago

Probably them pinching pennies, not using automotive-grade components. This keeps happening: https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows... Enjoy replacing literally every part of your car if you expect it to last close to a decade.

JudasGoat 7y ago

It certainly seems to be accentuated by the difficulty in obtaining both parts and schematics for a Tesla.