5 ms·

I thought going underground was the way to go. I wasn't imagining a "pressurized tunnel" but rather a pressurized underground complex filled with tunnels and ro

I thought going underground was the way to go. I wasn't imagining a "pressurized tunnel" but rather a pressurized underground complex filled with tunnels and rooms (minecraft). But maybe pressurizing an underground complex with walls made out of ...Mars is more difficult than building something on the surface? Going underground seemed like it had limitless room for easy expansion. I like the authors suggestion and it does sound better than a dome but living underground seems safer to me.

david_draco 7y ago
Yes, it is curious that natural land features are not exploited more. You can put that city wherever you want on Mars. Cover a canyon (walls for free). Use lava tubes. Or search for any peculiar geological feature that is amendable. I don't get why the assumption is a completely flat, desert surface.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  Expandability. If you need more space in any direction, all you need to do is put up a few (high-tech) tarps, instead of excavating rock. Cities on Earth are generally not being in canyons either, even though that would give you "walls for free" as well.
  - pbhjpbhj 7y ago
    Floods and earthquakes make canyons sub-optimal for settlements on Earth too.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Keeping air in and radiation out aren't concerns on Earth, so other factors prevail in deciding where to build a settlement.
  - mdorazio 7y ago
    On the other hand, cities on Earth are very often bounded by other natural features like rivers and mountains that naturally constrain easily-usable space. On Mars it would seem to me the solution to needing more space would be the same as on Earth - build another city.
  - david_draco 7y ago
    Maybe. But if you have a canyon, you can use three natural sides, cover the top and one side. The side you can expand as needed. Cities on Earth don't need to be protected from toxic soil and hard UV radiation. Instead, most cities on earth have been built near rivers for cheap transportation. Castles and fortifications are built on hills for defensive value.
  - anoncake 7y ago
    On Earth, you don't even want these walls. City walls were for defense, building in a canyon just gives any attacker the high ground.
- m4rtink 7y ago
  This is partially due to (current) landing site requirements. Up till now landers targeting mars could not really handle any bigger terrain obstacles (big rocks, steep slopes, etc.) so the landing sites have been meticulously selected to be as flat and rock free as possible. That's why photos from different Mars landers look often very similar - the regions they have landed in have been effectively selected to be similar. :) And of course these pictures shape how Martian surface looks like the public consciousness. Things may be changing though, with the technology being developed for active obstacle avoidance, that might enable martian landers to land in a more complex terrain safely by analyzing the actual landing site and landing on a safe spot. Still, you might still want some flat area near an early martian base/city, even just to make trucking stuff from/to landers that strayed of course during landing easier. Eq. not having one in the middle of a rock field and another on crater bottom. :)
iainmerrick 7y ago
I’d imagine building out some new support pillars and flexible ceiling would be much faster and cheaper than digging out the same space underground. I know tunnel boring is supposed to be getting cheaper and easier, plus on Mars you’d be starting from a blank slate rather than working around/under existing infrastructure. But for big tunnels you still need a big boring machine, and that would either have to be shipped to Mars or built on Mars.
- peteradio 7y ago
  “If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.” To make a tunnel boring machine on mars you must first invent replicating nano mining/manufacture bots.
  - icebraining 7y ago
    Or you can try to build it from parts of other things you shipped there.
  - pizzaparty2 7y ago
    I believe the idea is to use a Boring company machine.
rbanffy 7y ago
I'd think an inflatable habitat inside a lava tube would be ideal. For the Moon, it'd be perfect - lava tubes are supposed to have lots of ice in them. There are photos of lava tubes that are hundreds of meters wide and kilometres long. That's a lot of space shielded from radiation.
Nasrudith 7y ago
I personally suspect the main reason for going above ground is morale and psychological essentially to have some sunlight and a view of the world they are settling to validate the purpose on an emotional level. I am uncertain of the ergonomics of living spaces in artifical environments - I suspect even the experts are uncertain and even if they invested heavily they would discover design mistakes to correct in future iterations.
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  I would imagine artificial sunlight would probably be preferable to humans in comparison to the far less bright sunlight of Mars - http://tomatosphere.letstalkscience.ca/Resources/library/ArticleId/5421/is-there-enough-light-on-mars-to-grow-plants.aspx http://tomatosphere.letstalkscience.ca/Resources/library/Art...
jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
Can you even do such a thing on earth?

david_draco 7y ago

Yes, it is curious that natural land features are not exploited more. You can put that city wherever you want on Mars. Cover a canyon (walls for free). Use lava tubes. Or search for any peculiar geological feature that is amendable. I don't get why the assumption is a completely flat, desert surface.

9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
Expandability. If you need more space in any direction, all you need to do is put up a few (high-tech) tarps, instead of excavating rock. Cities on Earth are generally not being in canyons either, even though that would give you "walls for free" as well.
- pbhjpbhj 7y ago
  Floods and earthquakes make canyons sub-optimal for settlements on Earth too.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  Keeping air in and radiation out aren't concerns on Earth, so other factors prevail in deciding where to build a settlement.
- mdorazio 7y ago
  On the other hand, cities on Earth are very often bounded by other natural features like rivers and mountains that naturally constrain easily-usable space. On Mars it would seem to me the solution to needing more space would be the same as on Earth - build another city.
- david_draco 7y ago
  Maybe. But if you have a canyon, you can use three natural sides, cover the top and one side. The side you can expand as needed. Cities on Earth don't need to be protected from toxic soil and hard UV radiation. Instead, most cities on earth have been built near rivers for cheap transportation. Castles and fortifications are built on hills for defensive value.
- anoncake 7y ago
  On Earth, you don't even want these walls. City walls were for defense, building in a canyon just gives any attacker the high ground.
m4rtink 7y ago
This is partially due to (current) landing site requirements. Up till now landers targeting mars could not really handle any bigger terrain obstacles (big rocks, steep slopes, etc.) so the landing sites have been meticulously selected to be as flat and rock free as possible. That's why photos from different Mars landers look often very similar - the regions they have landed in have been effectively selected to be similar. :) And of course these pictures shape how Martian surface looks like the public consciousness. Things may be changing though, with the technology being developed for active obstacle avoidance, that might enable martian landers to land in a more complex terrain safely by analyzing the actual landing site and landing on a safe spot. Still, you might still want some flat area near an early martian base/city, even just to make trucking stuff from/to landers that strayed of course during landing easier. Eq. not having one in the middle of a rock field and another on crater bottom. :)

iainmerrick 7y ago

I’d imagine building out some new support pillars and flexible ceiling would be much faster and cheaper than digging out the same space underground. I know tunnel boring is supposed to be getting cheaper and easier, plus on Mars you’d be starting from a blank slate rather than working around/under existing infrastructure. But for big tunnels you still need a big boring machine, and that would either have to be shipped to Mars or built on Mars.

peteradio 7y ago
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.” To make a tunnel boring machine on mars you must first invent replicating nano mining/manufacture bots.
- icebraining 7y ago
  Or you can try to build it from parts of other things you shipped there.
- pizzaparty2 7y ago
  I believe the idea is to use a Boring company machine.

rbanffy 7y ago

I'd think an inflatable habitat inside a lava tube would be ideal. For the Moon, it'd be perfect - lava tubes are supposed to have lots of ice in them. There are photos of lava tubes that are hundreds of meters wide and kilometres long. That's a lot of space shielded from radiation.

Nasrudith 7y ago

I personally suspect the main reason for going above ground is morale and psychological essentially to have some sunlight and a view of the world they are settling to validate the purpose on an emotional level. I am uncertain of the ergonomics of living spaces in artifical environments - I suspect even the experts are uncertain and even if they invested heavily they would discover design mistakes to correct in future iterations.

bryanrasmussen 7y ago
I would imagine artificial sunlight would probably be preferable to humans in comparison to the far less bright sunlight of Mars - http://tomatosphere.letstalkscience.ca/Resources/library/ArticleId/5421/is-there-enough-light-on-mars-to-grow-plants.aspx http://tomatosphere.letstalkscience.ca/Resources/library/Art...

jacobwilliamroy 7y ago

Can you even do such a thing on earth?