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> The fatigue is real. Oh, get over yourself. Whatever "fatigue" you are feeling is completely of your own choice. Other people aren't beholden to you for the

> The fatigue is real. Oh, get over yourself. Whatever "fatigue" you are feeling is completely of your own choice. Other people aren't beholden to you for their desire to make things. I cannot express strongly enough how much I hate comments like this. Go live in a utilitarian dystopia if you hate people making new things so much.

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago
It's not just the parent poster, it's many people. The fatigue is real. If we have solutions today that meet all business needs, why do we new frameworks? Good ideas should stand the test of time. I don't think we've got a real discernible reason for why React or Vue are becoming stale or too rigid.
- moron4hire 7y ago
  Repeating a meme over and over again doesn't make it true, it just makes you a robot. You choose to look at things like this and feel fatigue. Nobody forced to to look at it. Nobody told you "that's it, start retaining now". You have a fundamental fear of missing out that, instead of addressing the fear and feeling secure in your own choices, you feel necessary to externalize as criticism towards people exercising their own free will. React existing or not existing or being old or not being old is not a reason for others to not do the work they want to do.
  - tomtheelder 7y ago
    I think you've got this a bit backwards. It's not that people _feel_ that they need to retain information on every shiny new thing, it's that they _have actually had_ to retain information on an overwhelming number of new shiny things for professional reasons. As a consequence, there is a tiredness and skepticism about new things. It's not that people feel that it's necessary to retain, it's that people enjoy learning about new options, but find that their lived experience has given them a resistance to that which they might otherwise enjoy. They approach new things with interest, but end up frustrated to find more of the same. Also you can't just tell people to not feel things! That's not how emotions work!
    - moron4hire 7y ago
      > it's that they _have actually had_ to retain information on an overwhelming number of new shiny things for professional reasons. No, they have not. Not any more than the rest of us. Not any more than any other profession. I really think this whole thing is borne out of Code Camp graduates coming into the job market thinking all they needed was whatever minuscule collection of shell scripting incantations they learned in the Code Camp to get a "Zomg 6-figure++ salary". And if that is all the training you've had, I can easily see how it will feel like it is inadequate (because it is). But the answer is not "keep feeding the inadequate way of learning". And it's certainly not replying to someone's thread in which they present their hard work with "uuuuugh, woe is meeee".
      - zapzupnz 7y ago
        > No, they have not. Here's an idea: listen to how people feel rather than tell them how they feel. If people have felt the need to do something and so have done, that's as good as saying they needed to — if sufficiently done en masse. Whether that attitude was justified in the first place doesn't negate the fatigue they may now feel — a feeling they're more than entitled to, even with you saying they're not.
brailsafe 7y ago
My feeling on the fatigue—as I imagine theirs is—is not that "making new things" is bad in some way. It's that re-abstracting the same problem in different ways has kind of diminished the novelty of frontend development. Where before we were trying to just do things consistently across browsers and had maybe one or two major libraries or patterns to develop expertise for in the market that solved those problems. Now, to be marketable for jobs, you have to accommodate a fairly fragmented market for the same problem. It's less a matter of fatigue related to "Oh sheesh now we have some stupid way to draw 3D graphics and communicate with Bluetooth devices via JS. When are we gunna stop making new things!?". It's more that "Oh golly, another way to piece components together with JS, HTML, CSS and route the pages together, super excited to re-enter the job market when I don't have production experience with Vue, React, Angular, Svelte, Redux, MobX, Vuex, and maybe others I dunno cuz idc". These aren't necessarily perfectly true statements, and nobody is necessarily forced to do anything, but it's fucking boring to hear about, and boredom leads to fatigue. That said, it's pointless to comment about and I do share your sentiment that the equally as frequent echo of pessimism isn't worthwhile.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- moron4hire 7y ago
  So you are admitting that your Fear of Missing Out is irrational. You've developed a phobia of new libraries because... why? Because a small portion of other developers who post a lot on the internet are magpies? Choose your own adventure already.
  - brailsafe 7y ago
    I don't personally have a fomo, but I'd certainly argue that it is very much rational and not necessarily a phobia. My impression is that it's just a cynical reaction to a lack of interest derived from lack of diversity in the problem domain. Your reaction would be irrational, perhaps derived from insecurity or feeling that your personal belief has been attacked repeatedly. Would you say that you personally love re-inventing the wheel, and would you prefer to have your viability in the job market depend on variable your knowledge is on the narrow scope of re-inventing the same wheel?

JMTQp8lwXL 7y ago

It's not just the parent poster, it's many people. The fatigue is real. If we have solutions today that meet all business needs, why do we new frameworks? Good ideas should stand the test of time. I don't think we've got a real discernible reason for why React or Vue are becoming stale or too rigid.

moron4hire 7y ago
Repeating a meme over and over again doesn't make it true, it just makes you a robot. You choose to look at things like this and feel fatigue. Nobody forced to to look at it. Nobody told you "that's it, start retaining now". You have a fundamental fear of missing out that, instead of addressing the fear and feeling secure in your own choices, you feel necessary to externalize as criticism towards people exercising their own free will. React existing or not existing or being old or not being old is not a reason for others to not do the work they want to do.
- tomtheelder 7y ago
  I think you've got this a bit backwards. It's not that people _feel_ that they need to retain information on every shiny new thing, it's that they _have actually had_ to retain information on an overwhelming number of new shiny things for professional reasons. As a consequence, there is a tiredness and skepticism about new things. It's not that people feel that it's necessary to retain, it's that people enjoy learning about new options, but find that their lived experience has given them a resistance to that which they might otherwise enjoy. They approach new things with interest, but end up frustrated to find more of the same. Also you can't just tell people to not feel things! That's not how emotions work!
  - moron4hire 7y ago
    > it's that they _have actually had_ to retain information on an overwhelming number of new shiny things for professional reasons. No, they have not. Not any more than the rest of us. Not any more than any other profession. I really think this whole thing is borne out of Code Camp graduates coming into the job market thinking all they needed was whatever minuscule collection of shell scripting incantations they learned in the Code Camp to get a "Zomg 6-figure++ salary". And if that is all the training you've had, I can easily see how it will feel like it is inadequate (because it is). But the answer is not "keep feeding the inadequate way of learning". And it's certainly not replying to someone's thread in which they present their hard work with "uuuuugh, woe is meeee".
    - zapzupnz 7y ago
      > No, they have not. Here's an idea: listen to how people feel rather than tell them how they feel. If people have felt the need to do something and so have done, that's as good as saying they needed to — if sufficiently done en masse. Whether that attitude was justified in the first place doesn't negate the fatigue they may now feel — a feeling they're more than entitled to, even with you saying they're not.

brailsafe 7y ago

My feeling on the fatigue—as I imagine theirs is—is not that "making new things" is bad in some way. It's that re-abstracting the same problem in different ways has kind of diminished the novelty of frontend development. Where before we were trying to just do things consistently across browsers and had maybe one or two major libraries or patterns to develop expertise for in the market that solved those problems. Now, to be marketable for jobs, you have to accommodate a fairly fragmented market for the same problem. It's less a matter of fatigue related to "Oh sheesh now we have some stupid way to draw 3D graphics and communicate with Bluetooth devices via JS. When are we gunna stop making new things!?". It's more that "Oh golly, another way to piece components together with JS, HTML, CSS and route the pages together, super excited to re-enter the job market when I don't have production experience with Vue, React, Angular, Svelte, Redux, MobX, Vuex, and maybe others I dunno cuz idc". These aren't necessarily perfectly true statements, and nobody is necessarily forced to do anything, but it's fucking boring to hear about, and boredom leads to fatigue. That said, it's pointless to comment about and I do share your sentiment that the equally as frequent echo of pessimism isn't worthwhile.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
moron4hire 7y ago
So you are admitting that your Fear of Missing Out is irrational. You've developed a phobia of new libraries because... why? Because a small portion of other developers who post a lot on the internet are magpies? Choose your own adventure already.
- brailsafe 7y ago
  I don't personally have a fomo, but I'd certainly argue that it is very much rational and not necessarily a phobia. My impression is that it's just a cynical reaction to a lack of interest derived from lack of diversity in the problem domain. Your reaction would be irrational, perhaps derived from insecurity or feeling that your personal belief has been attacked repeatedly. Would you say that you personally love re-inventing the wheel, and would you prefer to have your viability in the job market depend on variable your knowledge is on the narrow scope of re-inventing the same wheel?