19 ms·

The Color of Surveillance: Monitoring of Poor and Working People – Reading List

gwenter 7y ago
The title is quite confusing. Maybe a moderator could improve it... The content is good.
sdan 7y ago
Mirror in case Drive crashes: https://sdan.cc/archive/CoS4%20Reading%20List.pdf https://sdan.cc/archive/CoS4%20Reading%20List.pdf
- philshem 7y ago
  here's another mirror _in case drive crashes_ https://gist.github.com/philshem/71507d4e8ecfabad252fbdf4d9f8bdd2/raw/d4d45eb07cb8a1ee2cc1e9d449ba700bfcb8bbf9/CoS4%2520Reading%2520List.pdf https://gist.github.com/philshem/71507d4e8ecfabad252fbdf4d9f...
vorpalhex 7y ago
Could also be labeled "Meta-Surveillance: How to make a list of everyone interested in Surveillance" given that it's hosted as a google drive document instead of _any other sane format in the world_.
- testuser66 7y ago
  It's a PDF.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - ForHackernews 7y ago
    Hosted on Google drive for some reason. It'd be interesting to see what inferences Google makes about people accessing files on g-drive.
    - prophesi 7y ago
      Yeah, if you're logged in to Google and access this file, it will now appear in your list of recent Drive files.
  - cousin_it 7y ago
    I know what PDFs look like, they don't have my Google account in the upper right corner. It's a Google page wrapped around a PDF.
    - Hitton 7y ago
      >they don't have my Google account in the upper right corner I don't understand how can someone who doesn't even bother to logout out of his google account or use something like firefox containers care about privacy. The document has to be hosted somewhere no matter what and google drive isn't any worse than random web page which uses google analytics.
      - soup10 7y ago
        Privacy and convenience don't have to be trade-offs.
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        If you set up containers to quarantine all Google stuff in one container this is still going to open in that container.
      - semiotagonal 7y ago
        Doesn't Google Drive show the identity of someone reading the document to other people reading it, or at least the owner? That's worse than just collecting analytics internally at Google.
        shadowgovt 7y ago
        No. If you aren't authenticated, it shows your presence in a shared document as "anonymous [metastable animal designator]"
        semiotagonal 7y ago
        I should have made it clear I was assuming that people were authenticated to their Google account. I think most people who use GMail never log out, and might not check the URL and realize they were navigating to a Google doc.
- DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
  or those who shared it simply wanted to distribute this to anyone who participated in the event (this reading list seems to be a follow-up deliverable): https://lawweb.colorado.edu/events/details.jsp?id=8376 https://lawweb.colorado.edu/events/details.jsp?id=8376 and https://twitter.com/alvarombedoya/status/1168933978029678592?lang=en https://twitter.com/alvarombedoya/status/1168933978029678592... fwiw, there is no need to authenticate with google to download the pdf (tor works fine too if anyone is too paranoid).
  - dalore 7y ago
    There is no need true, but if clicked and was logged into google, they now know. True I should have use an incognito but the point is there.
  - rhizome 7y ago
    Your ISP knows what IP you use, and Google has your ISP's phone number.
- paggle 7y ago
  The signal value of “being exposed to a link about surveillance and clicking it” is pretty darn low. Unless you’re in North Korea I wouldn’t worry about it.
- hackerbrother 7y ago
  ? It's a cheap way to host a file
- jascii 7y ago
  >given that it's hosted as a google drive document While an amusing irony, the reality is that -- without special measures -- 99% of content either is hosted on or routed through infrastructure owned by companies with less than stellar history regarding privacy..
brenden2 7y ago
Kind of amusing that this PDF is hosted on Google's servers, given that Google is running the largest surveillance operation in history.
- user764743 7y ago
  That would be the NSA, which I guess is the same thing.
gpm 7y ago
Heh, I missed the first ' and parsed the title as (The Color of Surveillance): ([Monitoring of] [Poor and Working Peoples Reading List]) instead of '([The Color of Surveillance]: [Monitoring of Poor and Working People])' [Reading List] but I suppose the latter is partially about the former anyways.
- cgranier 7y ago
  Same here. Initially thought this was about libraries monitoring what poor people read.
  - dang 7y ago
    Yes, that was confusing. I've repunctuated above.
hirundo 7y ago
In the hands of the Chinese government being on such a list could get you sent to a reeducation camp. The US isn't there yet, but "yet" does too much work here. If you ever wonder why pro-gun folk are so adamantly against gun registration, remember the yet. If 1A won't hold, 2A through 10A likely won't either.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Because I'm sure in the context of a revolution, the American gun owners would be super hard to identify. How closely does the NRA guard its donor list, or Guns & Ammo its subscription roster?
  - satokema_work 7y ago
    You might find the extreme gun fanatics this way, but for every one of those there are dozens that just have a regular weapon in the closet for emergencies and don't advertise it whatsoever. (At least in some jurisdictions, may vary based on your location)
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      In an actual revolution scenario, they're pretty easy to find too. They'd be the people with guns. I don't think I've actually ever really understood this aspect of American paranoia.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
        It is not paranoia when a US presidential candidate states he wants full blown confiscation. If anything, it is mistrust.
        fzeroracer 7y ago
        I'm curious as to why gun advocates trust the candidate who says they want to confiscate guns less than the president engaging in authoritarian and corrupt behavior. The whole point of the right to bear arms is that they're meant to be used against the government when they overstep their bounds. But what happens when the people who bear said arms agrees with how the government is breaking the law?
grsrvs2vu29 7y ago
Raw pastebin of the PDF contents here (Google Docs/PDF lol) so even those of us with JS off can view it. https://pastebin.com/raw/baHYyHyX https://pastebin.com/raw/baHYyHyX
puggo 7y ago
Wait, poor working people read?
- dmix 7y ago
  Every time I hear that term it's typically university students (and their professors or related groups, in this case Georgetown Law) co-opting that label and projecting their ideology on an idealized group of people whom they don't have much in common with (besides some vague anger at society and elites) - yet are convinced they know what's best for them... often pushing mass centralized systems as the solution. Systems that these same people will just happen to control and then later the 'vanguard' never actually gives up said power to the working poor. This story has repeated itself in history a bunch of times and it continues to.
dang 7y ago
Lists don't make good HN submissions, because the discussion ends up being about the lowest common denominator of the items on the list, making it generic instead of specific. Generic discussions are less interesting because there are fewer unpredictable things to say. When threads turn generic, they become repetitions of previous discussions, and usually turn nasty, almost as if that's what the mind turns to for amusement in the absence of new things to chew on. It's better to pick the most interesting item on a list and submit that. Curiosity thrives on the diffs between a new thing and other related things. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20lists%20denom&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20diffs&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- 4ntonius8lock 7y ago
  It's a shame, because some of those links are really interesting. If they only included a little bit of a narrative, they could easily make those links take on new meaning. Maybe even mixing examples of old with new (like the surveillance and terrible abuses toward labor leaders in the 19th century) I think the list is a good starting point for something a little more cohesive.

The title is quite confusing. Maybe a moderator could improve it... The content is good.

sdan 7y ago

Mirror in case Drive crashes: https://sdan.cc/archive/CoS4%20Reading%20List.pdf https://sdan.cc/archive/CoS4%20Reading%20List.pdf

philshem 7y ago
here's another mirror _in case drive crashes_ https://gist.github.com/philshem/71507d4e8ecfabad252fbdf4d9f8bdd2/raw/d4d45eb07cb8a1ee2cc1e9d449ba700bfcb8bbf9/CoS4%2520Reading%2520List.pdf https://gist.github.com/philshem/71507d4e8ecfabad252fbdf4d9f...

vorpalhex 7y ago

Could also be labeled "Meta-Surveillance: How to make a list of everyone interested in Surveillance" given that it's hosted as a google drive document instead of _any other sane format in the world_.

testuser66 7y ago
It's a PDF.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  Hosted on Google drive for some reason. It'd be interesting to see what inferences Google makes about people accessing files on g-drive.
  - prophesi 7y ago
    Yeah, if you're logged in to Google and access this file, it will now appear in your list of recent Drive files.
- cousin_it 7y ago
  I know what PDFs look like, they don't have my Google account in the upper right corner. It's a Google page wrapped around a PDF.
  - Hitton 7y ago
    >they don't have my Google account in the upper right corner I don't understand how can someone who doesn't even bother to logout out of his google account or use something like firefox containers care about privacy. The document has to be hosted somewhere no matter what and google drive isn't any worse than random web page which uses google analytics.
    - soup10 7y ago
      Privacy and convenience don't have to be trade-offs.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      If you set up containers to quarantine all Google stuff in one container this is still going to open in that container.
    - semiotagonal 7y ago
      Doesn't Google Drive show the identity of someone reading the document to other people reading it, or at least the owner? That's worse than just collecting analytics internally at Google.
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        No. If you aren't authenticated, it shows your presence in a shared document as "anonymous [metastable animal designator]"
        semiotagonal 7y ago
        I should have made it clear I was assuming that people were authenticated to their Google account. I think most people who use GMail never log out, and might not check the URL and realize they were navigating to a Google doc.
DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
or those who shared it simply wanted to distribute this to anyone who participated in the event (this reading list seems to be a follow-up deliverable): https://lawweb.colorado.edu/events/details.jsp?id=8376 https://lawweb.colorado.edu/events/details.jsp?id=8376 and https://twitter.com/alvarombedoya/status/1168933978029678592?lang=en https://twitter.com/alvarombedoya/status/1168933978029678592... fwiw, there is no need to authenticate with google to download the pdf (tor works fine too if anyone is too paranoid).
- dalore 7y ago
  There is no need true, but if clicked and was logged into google, they now know. True I should have use an incognito but the point is there.
- rhizome 7y ago
  Your ISP knows what IP you use, and Google has your ISP's phone number.
paggle 7y ago
The signal value of “being exposed to a link about surveillance and clicking it” is pretty darn low. Unless you’re in North Korea I wouldn’t worry about it.
hackerbrother 7y ago
? It's a cheap way to host a file
jascii 7y ago
>given that it's hosted as a google drive document While an amusing irony, the reality is that -- without special measures -- 99% of content either is hosted on or routed through infrastructure owned by companies with less than stellar history regarding privacy..

brenden2 7y ago

Kind of amusing that this PDF is hosted on Google's servers, given that Google is running the largest surveillance operation in history.

user764743 7y ago
That would be the NSA, which I guess is the same thing.

gpm 7y ago

Heh, I missed the first ' and parsed the title as (The Color of Surveillance): ([Monitoring of] [Poor and Working Peoples Reading List]) instead of '([The Color of Surveillance]: [Monitoring of Poor and Working People])' [Reading List] but I suppose the latter is partially about the former anyways.

cgranier 7y ago
Same here. Initially thought this was about libraries monitoring what poor people read.
- dang 7y ago
  Yes, that was confusing. I've repunctuated above.

hirundo 7y ago

In the hands of the Chinese government being on such a list could get you sent to a reeducation camp. The US isn't there yet, but "yet" does too much work here. If you ever wonder why pro-gun folk are so adamantly against gun registration, remember the yet. If 1A won't hold, 2A through 10A likely won't either.

shadowgovt 7y ago
Because I'm sure in the context of a revolution, the American gun owners would be super hard to identify. How closely does the NRA guard its donor list, or Guns & Ammo its subscription roster?
- satokema_work 7y ago
  You might find the extreme gun fanatics this way, but for every one of those there are dozens that just have a regular weapon in the closet for emergencies and don't advertise it whatsoever. (At least in some jurisdictions, may vary based on your location)
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    In an actual revolution scenario, they're pretty easy to find too. They'd be the people with guns. I don't think I've actually ever really understood this aspect of American paranoia.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
      It is not paranoia when a US presidential candidate states he wants full blown confiscation. If anything, it is mistrust.
      - fzeroracer 7y ago
        I'm curious as to why gun advocates trust the candidate who says they want to confiscate guns less than the president engaging in authoritarian and corrupt behavior. The whole point of the right to bear arms is that they're meant to be used against the government when they overstep their bounds. But what happens when the people who bear said arms agrees with how the government is breaking the law?

grsrvs2vu29 7y ago

Raw pastebin of the PDF contents here (Google Docs/PDF lol) so even those of us with JS off can view it. https://pastebin.com/raw/baHYyHyX https://pastebin.com/raw/baHYyHyX

puggo 7y ago

Wait, poor working people read?

dmix 7y ago
Every time I hear that term it's typically university students (and their professors or related groups, in this case Georgetown Law) co-opting that label and projecting their ideology on an idealized group of people whom they don't have much in common with (besides some vague anger at society and elites) - yet are convinced they know what's best for them... often pushing mass centralized systems as the solution. Systems that these same people will just happen to control and then later the 'vanguard' never actually gives up said power to the working poor. This story has repeated itself in history a bunch of times and it continues to.

dang 7y ago

Lists don't make good HN submissions, because the discussion ends up being about the lowest common denominator of the items on the list, making it generic instead of specific. Generic discussions are less interesting because there are fewer unpredictable things to say. When threads turn generic, they become repetitions of previous discussions, and usually turn nasty, almost as if that's what the mind turns to for amusement in the absence of new things to chew on. It's better to pick the most interesting item on a list and submit that. Curiosity thrives on the diffs between a new thing and other related things. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20lists%20denom&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20diffs&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

4ntonius8lock 7y ago
It's a shame, because some of those links are really interesting. If they only included a little bit of a narrative, they could easily make those links take on new meaning. Maybe even mixing examples of old with new (like the surveillance and terrible abuses toward labor leaders in the 19th century) I think the list is a good starting point for something a little more cohesive.