5 ms·

Live shipping should be banned.

by growlist 7y ago

dev_north_east 7y ago
Why?
- henryaj 7y ago
  Because of the extraordinary suffering it causes to animals. https://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/live-animal-transport/ https://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/live-animal-transport/
  - an_ko 7y ago
    I'm sure it would be possible to transport animals more gently. Banning live animal transport altogether sounds like an overreaction.
    - toomanybeersies 7y ago
      You can slaughter them first and ship the carcasses.
      - frosted-flakes 7y ago
        What if you're trying to sell breeding animals?
        growlist 7y ago
        Come on now, that's the exceptional case here.
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    The same animals walking under the desert sun for months coated in wool without nothing green at sight, does not seem like a totally cruelty-free better alternative necessarily. There is not logical reason to see it as a morally superior alternative. There is bad ways and good ways to transport animals by road.
    - henryaj 7y ago
      Where did I suggest we should transport live animals thousands of miles by making them walk the whole way?
      - pvaldes 7y ago
        Ok. Honest question. What do you suggest then? Teleportation? The "but its cruelty against animals so lets kill them instead!" card is a random and really worn out argument nowadays. We have enough of real problems yet.
        bobongo 7y ago
        > Honest question. ... Teleportation? Your suggestion gives your question the appearance of a not-so-honest question. > What do you suggest then? The answer would depend on your convictions. It could be one or a combination of, for example, - Tight national and international regulations (with teeth) to ensure animal safety and well-being, comparable to the transport of humans, - Local-only growth, - Alternative protein start-ups, - Etc. > but its cruelty against animals so lets kill them instead! I could not find any instances where the OP suggested this. edit: Found someone else who mentioned that, which doesn't make sense to me either - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21637661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21637661 On the other hand, > but its cruelty against animals Then you would want to stop it in one way or another, no? What would be your suggestions?
  - Aeolun 7y ago
    I swear the video on that site is edited to make things seem worse than they are. Literally the only thing we ever see is a close up of cow faces, sped up to make the movements seem more erratic. All the language is also full of hyperbole ‘the terrible exhausting journey’, ‘their sad faces’, ‘the aggressive behavior of the truck driver’. I just cannot watch this thing. These people instantly have an agenda to me. They may be right, but there are enough terrible stories out there without any attempt to make it worse (as seen from some of the stories posted here).
  - sargram01 7y ago
    > Unexpected issues – in addition to routine suffering, long distance live transport can also result in fires, delays or sinking of livestock ships causing the suffering and death of large numbers of animals. Apparently sinking ships with live stock is not uncommon?
ruthless_banker 7y ago
How is shipping different than truck or train.
- randomsearch 7y ago
  Shipping can refer to all three in this context.
- toomanybeersies 7y ago
  Generally the journeys are much longer and in poorer conditions, with a lot less oversight. Live shipping of sheep and beef out of Australia and New Zealand, especially to the Middle East, has been very controversial and banned on and off depending on the economy and political flavour of the month. It's a long, hot, hard journey, across the equator into the Middle East. There's no oversight on the ships, they get transported in horrible conditions, and the countries they're shipping the animals to don't have a great track record on animal cruelty. Here's a case where 2,400 sheep died from heat stress on a voyage from Australia the Middle East: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/31/live-exporter-charged-with-sheep-cruelty-over-deadly-awassi-shipment https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/31/live-... That's not an isolated incident either. It's endemic to live shipping. The whole reason they're doing it is because they want to maximise profits by shipping them live and slaughtering them in countries where it's cheaper, rather than using Australian abattoirs and shipping frozen carcasses or cuts.
- bobongo 7y ago
  I had assumed OP meant all methods of shipment.
Aeolun 7y ago
We’re shipping humans live. It’s not as if we subject sheep to something we aren’t willing to undertake ourselves.
- soonoutoftime 7y ago
  What are you talking about exactly? Are thousands of humans dying of heat stress due to spending weeks at sea in literally unbearable conditions? It's horrific.
  - Aeolun 7y ago
    I'm talking about shipping sheep/animals by sea. The conditions of said shipping can sure use some improvement, but banning it altogether seems like an overreaction.
- MisterTea 7y ago
  Citation needed. Last time I tried to ship someone in a container I got 20 years.

Live shipping should be banned.

dev_north_east 7y ago

Why?

henryaj 7y ago
Because of the extraordinary suffering it causes to animals. https://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/live-animal-transport/ https://www.ciwf.org.uk/our-campaigns/live-animal-transport/
- an_ko 7y ago
  I'm sure it would be possible to transport animals more gently. Banning live animal transport altogether sounds like an overreaction.
  - toomanybeersies 7y ago
    You can slaughter them first and ship the carcasses.
    - frosted-flakes 7y ago
      What if you're trying to sell breeding animals?
      - growlist 7y ago
        Come on now, that's the exceptional case here.
- pvaldes 7y ago
  The same animals walking under the desert sun for months coated in wool without nothing green at sight, does not seem like a totally cruelty-free better alternative necessarily. There is not logical reason to see it as a morally superior alternative. There is bad ways and good ways to transport animals by road.
  - henryaj 7y ago
    Where did I suggest we should transport live animals thousands of miles by making them walk the whole way?
    - pvaldes 7y ago
      Ok. Honest question. What do you suggest then? Teleportation? The "but its cruelty against animals so lets kill them instead!" card is a random and really worn out argument nowadays. We have enough of real problems yet.
      - bobongo 7y ago
        > Honest question. ... Teleportation? Your suggestion gives your question the appearance of a not-so-honest question. > What do you suggest then? The answer would depend on your convictions. It could be one or a combination of, for example, - Tight national and international regulations (with teeth) to ensure animal safety and well-being, comparable to the transport of humans, - Local-only growth, - Alternative protein start-ups, - Etc. > but its cruelty against animals so lets kill them instead! I could not find any instances where the OP suggested this. edit: Found someone else who mentioned that, which doesn't make sense to me either - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21637661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21637661 On the other hand, > but its cruelty against animals Then you would want to stop it in one way or another, no? What would be your suggestions?
- Aeolun 7y ago
  I swear the video on that site is edited to make things seem worse than they are. Literally the only thing we ever see is a close up of cow faces, sped up to make the movements seem more erratic. All the language is also full of hyperbole ‘the terrible exhausting journey’, ‘their sad faces’, ‘the aggressive behavior of the truck driver’. I just cannot watch this thing. These people instantly have an agenda to me. They may be right, but there are enough terrible stories out there without any attempt to make it worse (as seen from some of the stories posted here).
- sargram01 7y ago
  > Unexpected issues – in addition to routine suffering, long distance live transport can also result in fires, delays or sinking of livestock ships causing the suffering and death of large numbers of animals. Apparently sinking ships with live stock is not uncommon?

ruthless_banker 7y ago

How is shipping different than truck or train.

randomsearch 7y ago
Shipping can refer to all three in this context.
toomanybeersies 7y ago
Generally the journeys are much longer and in poorer conditions, with a lot less oversight. Live shipping of sheep and beef out of Australia and New Zealand, especially to the Middle East, has been very controversial and banned on and off depending on the economy and political flavour of the month. It's a long, hot, hard journey, across the equator into the Middle East. There's no oversight on the ships, they get transported in horrible conditions, and the countries they're shipping the animals to don't have a great track record on animal cruelty. Here's a case where 2,400 sheep died from heat stress on a voyage from Australia the Middle East: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/31/live-exporter-charged-with-sheep-cruelty-over-deadly-awassi-shipment https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/31/live-... That's not an isolated incident either. It's endemic to live shipping. The whole reason they're doing it is because they want to maximise profits by shipping them live and slaughtering them in countries where it's cheaper, rather than using Australian abattoirs and shipping frozen carcasses or cuts.
bobongo 7y ago
I had assumed OP meant all methods of shipment.

Aeolun 7y ago

We’re shipping humans live. It’s not as if we subject sheep to something we aren’t willing to undertake ourselves.

soonoutoftime 7y ago
What are you talking about exactly? Are thousands of humans dying of heat stress due to spending weeks at sea in literally unbearable conditions? It's horrific.
- Aeolun 7y ago
  I'm talking about shipping sheep/animals by sea. The conditions of said shipping can sure use some improvement, but banning it altogether seems like an overreaction.
MisterTea 7y ago
Citation needed. Last time I tried to ship someone in a container I got 20 years.