7 ms·

I think this is probably just a deliberate and horrendous mis-representation. I don't know how Google's internal systems work and would love someone who works t

I think this is probably just a deliberate and horrendous mis-representation. I don't know how Google's internal systems work and would love someone who works there to comment further. However, in the public Google calendar I can set up alerts for all the meetings someone else has (useful for secretaries etc.). And so if you just sign up for those alerts you're going to get: > received emails detailing the work and whereabouts of those employees, including personal matters such as 1:1s, medical appointments and family activities — all without those employees’ knowledge or consent. Except that that is how Google has designed its calendar system. If you put your medical appointments into your calendar without marking them private then yes, they're going to be public. So basically, Google seems to have managed to take a feature in its own Calendar App, and the default behaviour of meetings on Google and dressed it up like stalking.

jtolmar 7y ago
Yes, Google uses Google Calendar internally. Signing up for email alerts about somebody else's calendar is definitely weird. But the information you'd get is the same as someone would get if they checked your calendar manually, which is an expected and normal part of Google's culture.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  No, it is more like checking it manually every single day. ...which is would be akin to following someone in public and filming them. Technically, it's all in public, but it is no less likely to make people feel stalked and unsafe. The underlying part here is that these employees were using the notion of "unions" to organize _politically_. ...and their willingness to act against fellow employees and leak company documents demonstrates just how dirty they would have become had they been allowed to continue. Personally, I don't think they cared at all about worker rights beyond their desire to advocate their politics.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    They have only announced circumstantial evidence that the so-called "stalking" was related to the leak. Remember, the so-called stalking was looking at information that the owner chose to share with the company and didn't mark the "private" flag on (which is available as a default to apply to all meetings).
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - sodosopa 7y ago
    Checking an employee’s public internal calendar every day, the bastards. /s Why were they using company resources for personal meetings?
    - markstos 7y ago
      If I have a doctor's appointment in the middle of the day, I might add it to my personal calendar with full details, but I still need to add an entry to my work calendar to show I'll be out of the office, possibly with a generic title like "Medical Appt".
      - tomjen3 7y ago
        I wouldn't do that personally. It would say "Busy" and nothing else - that is all the company needs to know.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > Why were they using company resources for personal meetings? Probably because it represents time that are unavailable for work and, in many cases, because their are people at work (including their boss) entitled to know the reason, and who probably established that as the workflow for sharing the information.
      - _wolfie_ 7y ago
        Yeah, and that's why you put full details in your personal calendar and into the work one "Doctor's appointment" or something without expanding on that any further.
    - tylerl 7y ago
      > Why were they using company resources for personal meetings? So that coworkers don't schedule you for meetings during your doctor appointments.
      - sodosopa 7y ago
- sodosopa 7y ago
  It’s normal in a lot of companies. I typically have my bosses and my team lead’s calendar up throughout the day. Helps to fill in the gaps and get a feel for questions I’ll ask later
  - drdeadringer 7y ago
    A time ago I used to not put anything onto my work calender because "it didn't matter" and "no one cared". Meeting at 2pm? That's a postit note and that was good enough for me. Somewhere along the line, people started scheduling me for events in conflict with other events. Why? My online visible calender was free and clear into eternity so obviously I have nothing going on at 2pm. Explaining not being able to be in three places at once got old fast. So now I have an eye toward using the calendar "defensively". Here's when I usually come in, here's when I usually clock out, here's when I usually take lunch, here's that weekly meeting I have to attend for someone else's giggles, here's when I'm helping Jimmy with this thing, here's when Samantha is helping me with the other thing. You want a meeting? Now the calendar begins a negotiation. I may or may not like it, but the tipping point has come and gone for me.
- antpol 7y ago
  If you are periodically checking coworkers manually and then said coworkers got doxed externally you would be in the same troubles with the company for creating hostile workplace
300bps 7y ago
So basically, Google seems to have managed to take a feature in its own Calendar App, and the default behaviour of meetings on Google and dressed it up like stalking. A window on your friend’s house can be used to peek in to see if they’re home when you’ve popped by to visit. It can also be used to stare into all day to monitor what someone you don’t know is doing. What the terminated employees are accused of doing is a lot more like the second example.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Windows don't have privacy switches (blinds don't count, for obvious reason), and co-workers aren't "someone you don't know", and calendars are business planes not personal activities or personal bodies.
- ethbro 7y ago
  Also, in this example, Google would be the company paying users to set up cameras fixated on their windows, watching 24/7, for purposes of serving more relevant flyers in their mailboxes.
  - antpol 7y ago
    Yes, and users voluntarily agree for said “big brother watching you” dystopia to get free mailbox, maps app and free photos backups Nobody signed up for their coworkers monitoring your calendar and then you find you beign doxed externally. Company investigated, gave out warnings, and yet the hostile behavior continued and here is the result
claudeganon 7y ago
Just a reminder that Google illegally fixed wages through non-poaching agreements, lied to their employees about work with the Chinese government on censorship, paid out Andy Rubin millions of dollars, and are funding right-wing politicians and groups that spread climate change denial. Why anyone would believe anything they say about labor organizers is beyond me. Their leadership has shown themselves time and time again to be dishonest, self-serving, and actively opposed to their employee’s success and well-being.
- AshwinDurairaj 7y ago
  I hope those that get fired sue for wrongful termination to see if Google really did interfere purposely with the labor organizers, or if the organizer maliciously acted and their termination was justified.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Spooky23 7y ago
The privilege to take an action is not a justification of the action. Google designed their calendar this way to support work. It doesn’t sound like these people were using resources for work purposes. That’s almost certainly a violation of the work rules. Pushing blame on the employee being tracked is ridiculous. Companies are not democracies, and unless you are an executive with a contract or are in a collective bargaining agreement, you serve at the pleasure of your management. If you’re irritating your management for reasons and want to stick around, you need to work in the rules.
- koheripbal 7y ago
  The fact that screenshots of those calendars were later found outside the company, helps to demonstrate intent here. Also, it might be legal for me to follow a person around in public and film them, but doing that is still incredibly creepy and indicative of mal intent.
  - jagged-chisel 7y ago
    At some point those behaviors cross the line into stalking. I don't know where exactly law enforcement and prosecutors draw that line, but I'd prefer to get them involved sooner rather than later.
  - wolco 7y ago
    Not really. Different groups may follow you. PI trying to determine marriage issues, health issues for insurance reasons, etc If you are famous or have something to add to the news cycle reporters or people trying to sell your picture may follow you around. Most people post where they have been publically to create their personal brand that they share with others. These have no mal intent. The overused word creepy is subjective.. and doesn't make it wrong. I know someone who feels creepy going outside at night. We shouldn't morally make a judgement for everyone based on someone's feelings. I don't think going outside is creepy.
    - Marsymars 7y ago
      > PI trying to determine marriage issues, health issues for insurance reasons, etc From my perspective, either of those have ill intent towards me.
PunchTornado 7y ago
if it's useful for secretaries it doesn't mean that it should be used by someone else who doesn't need that information. This behaviour is dodgy and I wouldn't want to work with a colleague who does this.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> However, in the public Google calendar I can set up alerts for all the meetings someone else has (useful for secretaries etc.). The fact that you can do it doesn't mean it is proper for you to do it other than as reasonable for legitimate job duties. There is no system in place physically preventing me from doing lots of illegitimate things in my workplace, but that doesn't mean that if I do them I get a free pass merely because it was possible to do them.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

jtolmar 7y ago

Yes, Google uses Google Calendar internally. Signing up for email alerts about somebody else's calendar is definitely weird. But the information you'd get is the same as someone would get if they checked your calendar manually, which is an expected and normal part of Google's culture.

koheripbal 7y ago
No, it is more like checking it manually every single day. ...which is would be akin to following someone in public and filming them. Technically, it's all in public, but it is no less likely to make people feel stalked and unsafe. The underlying part here is that these employees were using the notion of "unions" to organize _politically_. ...and their willingness to act against fellow employees and leak company documents demonstrates just how dirty they would have become had they been allowed to continue. Personally, I don't think they cared at all about worker rights beyond their desire to advocate their politics.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  They have only announced circumstantial evidence that the so-called "stalking" was related to the leak. Remember, the so-called stalking was looking at information that the owner chose to share with the company and didn't mark the "private" flag on (which is available as a default to apply to all meetings).
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sodosopa 7y ago
  Checking an employee’s public internal calendar every day, the bastards. /s Why were they using company resources for personal meetings?
  - markstos 7y ago
    If I have a doctor's appointment in the middle of the day, I might add it to my personal calendar with full details, but I still need to add an entry to my work calendar to show I'll be out of the office, possibly with a generic title like "Medical Appt".
    - tomjen3 7y ago
      I wouldn't do that personally. It would say "Busy" and nothing else - that is all the company needs to know.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > Why were they using company resources for personal meetings? Probably because it represents time that are unavailable for work and, in many cases, because their are people at work (including their boss) entitled to know the reason, and who probably established that as the workflow for sharing the information.
    - _wolfie_ 7y ago
      Yeah, and that's why you put full details in your personal calendar and into the work one "Doctor's appointment" or something without expanding on that any further.
  - tylerl 7y ago
    > Why were they using company resources for personal meetings? So that coworkers don't schedule you for meetings during your doctor appointments.
    - sodosopa 7y ago
sodosopa 7y ago
It’s normal in a lot of companies. I typically have my bosses and my team lead’s calendar up throughout the day. Helps to fill in the gaps and get a feel for questions I’ll ask later
- drdeadringer 7y ago
  A time ago I used to not put anything onto my work calender because "it didn't matter" and "no one cared". Meeting at 2pm? That's a postit note and that was good enough for me. Somewhere along the line, people started scheduling me for events in conflict with other events. Why? My online visible calender was free and clear into eternity so obviously I have nothing going on at 2pm. Explaining not being able to be in three places at once got old fast. So now I have an eye toward using the calendar "defensively". Here's when I usually come in, here's when I usually clock out, here's when I usually take lunch, here's that weekly meeting I have to attend for someone else's giggles, here's when I'm helping Jimmy with this thing, here's when Samantha is helping me with the other thing. You want a meeting? Now the calendar begins a negotiation. I may or may not like it, but the tipping point has come and gone for me.
antpol 7y ago
If you are periodically checking coworkers manually and then said coworkers got doxed externally you would be in the same troubles with the company for creating hostile workplace

300bps 7y ago

So basically, Google seems to have managed to take a feature in its own Calendar App, and the default behaviour of meetings on Google and dressed it up like stalking. A window on your friend’s house can be used to peek in to see if they’re home when you’ve popped by to visit. It can also be used to stare into all day to monitor what someone you don’t know is doing. What the terminated employees are accused of doing is a lot more like the second example.

lonelappde 7y ago
Windows don't have privacy switches (blinds don't count, for obvious reason), and co-workers aren't "someone you don't know", and calendars are business planes not personal activities or personal bodies.
ethbro 7y ago
Also, in this example, Google would be the company paying users to set up cameras fixated on their windows, watching 24/7, for purposes of serving more relevant flyers in their mailboxes.
- antpol 7y ago
  Yes, and users voluntarily agree for said “big brother watching you” dystopia to get free mailbox, maps app and free photos backups Nobody signed up for their coworkers monitoring your calendar and then you find you beign doxed externally. Company investigated, gave out warnings, and yet the hostile behavior continued and here is the result

claudeganon 7y ago

Just a reminder that Google illegally fixed wages through non-poaching agreements, lied to their employees about work with the Chinese government on censorship, paid out Andy Rubin millions of dollars, and are funding right-wing politicians and groups that spread climate change denial. Why anyone would believe anything they say about labor organizers is beyond me. Their leadership has shown themselves time and time again to be dishonest, self-serving, and actively opposed to their employee’s success and well-being.

AshwinDurairaj 7y ago
I hope those that get fired sue for wrongful termination to see if Google really did interfere purposely with the labor organizers, or if the organizer maliciously acted and their termination was justified.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Spooky23 7y ago

The privilege to take an action is not a justification of the action. Google designed their calendar this way to support work. It doesn’t sound like these people were using resources for work purposes. That’s almost certainly a violation of the work rules. Pushing blame on the employee being tracked is ridiculous. Companies are not democracies, and unless you are an executive with a contract or are in a collective bargaining agreement, you serve at the pleasure of your management. If you’re irritating your management for reasons and want to stick around, you need to work in the rules.

koheripbal 7y ago
The fact that screenshots of those calendars were later found outside the company, helps to demonstrate intent here. Also, it might be legal for me to follow a person around in public and film them, but doing that is still incredibly creepy and indicative of mal intent.
- jagged-chisel 7y ago
  At some point those behaviors cross the line into stalking. I don't know where exactly law enforcement and prosecutors draw that line, but I'd prefer to get them involved sooner rather than later.
- wolco 7y ago
  Not really. Different groups may follow you. PI trying to determine marriage issues, health issues for insurance reasons, etc If you are famous or have something to add to the news cycle reporters or people trying to sell your picture may follow you around. Most people post where they have been publically to create their personal brand that they share with others. These have no mal intent. The overused word creepy is subjective.. and doesn't make it wrong. I know someone who feels creepy going outside at night. We shouldn't morally make a judgement for everyone based on someone's feelings. I don't think going outside is creepy.
  - Marsymars 7y ago
    > PI trying to determine marriage issues, health issues for insurance reasons, etc From my perspective, either of those have ill intent towards me.

PunchTornado 7y ago

if it's useful for secretaries it doesn't mean that it should be used by someone else who doesn't need that information. This behaviour is dodgy and I wouldn't want to work with a colleague who does this.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> However, in the public Google calendar I can set up alerts for all the meetings someone else has (useful for secretaries etc.). The fact that you can do it doesn't mean it is proper for you to do it other than as reasonable for legitimate job duties. There is no system in place physically preventing me from doing lots of illegitimate things in my workplace, but that doesn't mean that if I do them I get a free pass merely because it was possible to do them.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]