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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.” - Alexander Fraser Tytler

eru 7y ago
Switzerland has been around as a (relatively) small government democracy for quite a while. There are regular direct democracy polls on spending and taxes.
- corporate_shi11 7y ago
  Switzerland also doesn't have many poor people.
  - newyankee 7y ago
    classic understatement but yes it helps to have a population that is well off, educated and can wisely make the decision.
  - winter_blue 7y ago
    Switzerland used to be quite poor until not long ago. It was a mostly subsistence farming country, and throughout the 1800s, it was a nation that people emigrated from.
  - nutjob2 7y ago
    7% doesn't sound insignificant and is roughly comparable to other highly developed European countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Switzerland Also, local reporting on Swiss poverty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yI4ygNr5Mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yI4ygNr5Mg
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Switzerland does have quite a few poor people, the difference being that someone on the poverty limit in Switzerland still happens to look quite alright from the outside. The problem is that one cannot just look at income, rather what someone has to pay for as well, and in Switzerland you pay for everything. I think that many Swiss can relate to this, when I lived there we used to joke that only breathing is free.
  - anoncake 7y ago
    Democracy seems to be working quite well.
anoncake 7y ago
That doesn't make sense. The voters already collectively own the treasury of their state. And how exactly is it a requirement for a democracy to exist that it implements your favorite policies?
- eru 7y ago
  > The voters already collectively own the treasury of their state. The situation is bit more complicated than that. The voters aren't one monolithic entity. So government has lots of principle-agent problems. Check out Public Choice theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice).

eru 7y ago

Switzerland has been around as a (relatively) small government democracy for quite a while. There are regular direct democracy polls on spending and taxes.

corporate_shi11 7y ago
Switzerland also doesn't have many poor people.
- newyankee 7y ago
  classic understatement but yes it helps to have a population that is well off, educated and can wisely make the decision.
- winter_blue 7y ago
  Switzerland used to be quite poor until not long ago. It was a mostly subsistence farming country, and throughout the 1800s, it was a nation that people emigrated from.
- nutjob2 7y ago
  7% doesn't sound insignificant and is roughly comparable to other highly developed European countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Switzerland Also, local reporting on Swiss poverty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yI4ygNr5Mg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yI4ygNr5Mg
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Switzerland does have quite a few poor people, the difference being that someone on the poverty limit in Switzerland still happens to look quite alright from the outside. The problem is that one cannot just look at income, rather what someone has to pay for as well, and in Switzerland you pay for everything. I think that many Swiss can relate to this, when I lived there we used to joke that only breathing is free.
- anoncake 7y ago
  Democracy seems to be working quite well.

anoncake 7y ago

That doesn't make sense. The voters already collectively own the treasury of their state. And how exactly is it a requirement for a democracy to exist that it implements your favorite policies?

eru 7y ago
> The voters already collectively own the treasury of their state. The situation is bit more complicated than that. The voters aren't one monolithic entity. So government has lots of principle-agent problems. Check out Public Choice theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice).