5 ms·

I just love this: > “The copper of mine, give it to Nigga-Nanna – good copper, in order that my heart shall not be troubled.” > “May Samas bless your life. ..

I just love this: > “The copper of mine, give it to Nigga-Nanna – good copper, in order that my heart shall not be troubled.” > “May Samas bless your life. ... In order that your heart shall not be troubled, give good copper to him.” “May your heart not be troubled..” It’s just a small sample of letters, but it seems people from 4000 years ago had better empathy than us. Why do we not show each other this kind of courtesy any more? Why do most of our interactions today seek to upset someone or become upset instead of seeking accord?

friedman23 7y ago
The reason why we don't show any form of courtesy anymore is because there is no community. There are so many people on this planet suffering so much injustice that we may as well be ants to each other.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
geekpowa 7y ago
I think you are lensing this through your own cultural filters/assumptions. My first reading is as a veiled threat: honour our agreement or I bring trouble to your heart.
- Razengan 7y ago
  Your first sentence could just as well be the response to your second.
jml7c5 7y ago
I would be very wary of reading too much into the tone of a translation, especially when the language has been dead for so long.
dmcdm 7y ago
Really? I take this as evidence indicating basically the opposite - fundamental human nature, as reflected through our communications and business practices, hasn't changed significantly in thousands of years. Some folks might be courteous, giving others the benefit of the doubt in hopes they'll "catch more flies with honey" or, more-likely, due to pervasive social norms and taboos. Others might issue thinly-veiled or direct threats, hoping to coerce the desired outcome. Either way, there have been shady business people and the ripped-off, the scammers and the scammed, for going on 4 millennia, at the very least, and there really is no sign the status quo going to change. If anything, this should dispel our romances of the human condition. The form is immaterial to the underlying function of the communication. "I feel ripped off, please deliver the goods." ~1800 years later, and 2 millennia ago, the graffiti at Pompeii http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%20Pompeii.htm http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%2... tells a similar (and somewhat more humorous) story but in a different context.
- Razengan 7y ago
  > The form is immaterial to the underlying function of the communication. The form is very much pertinent to the outcome. If I come at you with expletives, it will produce a different result, even if just in your internal state.
- lordgrenville 7y ago
  That link is fascinating, thanks for sharing. Two minor things that stuck out to me: - "Kosher garum" - didn't see that coming! - "På stora svenska online casino kan du alltid hitta casino spel från Netent, spelen har översatts till många språk inklusive svenska." I don't speak Swedish but is this randomly injected online gambling spam?!
  - poizan42 7y ago
    > På stora svenska online casino kan du alltid hitta casino spel från Netent, spelen har översatts till många språk inklusive svenska." I don't speak Swedish but is this randomly injected online gambling spam?! Yes, it looks like the page has been compromised.
scarejunba 7y ago
Oh but we do. See, for instance, the forms of phrase "with all due respect", "bless your heart", and "oh you sweet summer child". Full of respect, kindness, and compassion. Sometimes, when people make mistakes, people from 2019 remind them that they're like the great thinker Einstein, a sign that even though they believe the person erred, everyone believes that they are still capable of acting with great intelligence. Truly, looking back two thousand years to the language of 2019 CE (near the invention of the Internet), one of us 5th-millennials must only conclude that true compassion began with that great sharing that was possible when all of Man could speak to all of Man over a single network.
- lordnacho 7y ago
  > See, for instance, the forms of phrase "with all due respect","bless your heart", and "oh you sweet summer child". Full of respect, kindness, and compassion. This basically means you are due no respect, your heart is black as charcoal, and you are as naive as a child. Source: many years living among the British.
  - Angostura 7y ago
    "With all due respect" can mean 'you're not worthy of any respect, but plyed with a straight bat, it means "I'm about to disagree with you strongly and in a way that might jeopardise my career, but I have to say this, please don't take it as a personal attack'.
    - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
      Usually that reduces to "I think you're an idiot, and here's why." I think these constructions are fascinating. They're accepted as barely disguised aggression, used in situations where outright aggression might spiral out of control. But they actually work. Even though everyone understands what they really mean, they're far less likely to lead to escalation than less polite forms.
  - danaris 7y ago
    I believe that was more or less his point.
tempguy9999 7y ago
I'd guess it's a convention of that society, and means no more than our (peculiar, in my view) manner of the writing of some letters starting "Dear Sir" and ending "I remain faithfully yours ...", or similar words. I think this may be a register (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_%28sociolinguistics%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_%28sociolinguistics%2...)
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  I remember reading a letter translated from Arabic to English. It sounded a lot like these letters to Ea-Nasir.
bandrami 7y ago
> but it seems people from 4000 years ago had better empathy than us. I see you're not from the South. Ask someone who is what "bless your heart" actually means.
- throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
  Well... what does it mean

friedman23 7y ago

The reason why we don't show any form of courtesy anymore is because there is no community. There are so many people on this planet suffering so much injustice that we may as well be ants to each other.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

geekpowa 7y ago

I think you are lensing this through your own cultural filters/assumptions. My first reading is as a veiled threat: honour our agreement or I bring trouble to your heart.

Razengan 7y ago
Your first sentence could just as well be the response to your second.

jml7c5 7y ago

I would be very wary of reading too much into the tone of a translation, especially when the language has been dead for so long.

dmcdm 7y ago

Really? I take this as evidence indicating basically the opposite - fundamental human nature, as reflected through our communications and business practices, hasn't changed significantly in thousands of years. Some folks might be courteous, giving others the benefit of the doubt in hopes they'll "catch more flies with honey" or, more-likely, due to pervasive social norms and taboos. Others might issue thinly-veiled or direct threats, hoping to coerce the desired outcome. Either way, there have been shady business people and the ripped-off, the scammers and the scammed, for going on 4 millennia, at the very least, and there really is no sign the status quo going to change. If anything, this should dispel our romances of the human condition. The form is immaterial to the underlying function of the communication. "I feel ripped off, please deliver the goods." ~1800 years later, and 2 millennia ago, the graffiti at Pompeii http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%20Pompeii.htm http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%2... tells a similar (and somewhat more humorous) story but in a different context.

Razengan 7y ago
> The form is immaterial to the underlying function of the communication. The form is very much pertinent to the outcome. If I come at you with expletives, it will produce a different result, even if just in your internal state.
lordgrenville 7y ago
That link is fascinating, thanks for sharing. Two minor things that stuck out to me: - "Kosher garum" - didn't see that coming! - "På stora svenska online casino kan du alltid hitta casino spel från Netent, spelen har översatts till många språk inklusive svenska." I don't speak Swedish but is this randomly injected online gambling spam?!
- poizan42 7y ago
  > På stora svenska online casino kan du alltid hitta casino spel från Netent, spelen har översatts till många språk inklusive svenska." I don't speak Swedish but is this randomly injected online gambling spam?! Yes, it looks like the page has been compromised.

scarejunba 7y ago

Oh but we do. See, for instance, the forms of phrase "with all due respect", "bless your heart", and "oh you sweet summer child". Full of respect, kindness, and compassion. Sometimes, when people make mistakes, people from 2019 remind them that they're like the great thinker Einstein, a sign that even though they believe the person erred, everyone believes that they are still capable of acting with great intelligence. Truly, looking back two thousand years to the language of 2019 CE (near the invention of the Internet), one of us 5th-millennials must only conclude that true compassion began with that great sharing that was possible when all of Man could speak to all of Man over a single network.

lordnacho 7y ago
> See, for instance, the forms of phrase "with all due respect","bless your heart", and "oh you sweet summer child". Full of respect, kindness, and compassion. This basically means you are due no respect, your heart is black as charcoal, and you are as naive as a child. Source: many years living among the British.
- Angostura 7y ago
  "With all due respect" can mean 'you're not worthy of any respect, but plyed with a straight bat, it means "I'm about to disagree with you strongly and in a way that might jeopardise my career, but I have to say this, please don't take it as a personal attack'.
  - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
    Usually that reduces to "I think you're an idiot, and here's why." I think these constructions are fascinating. They're accepted as barely disguised aggression, used in situations where outright aggression might spiral out of control. But they actually work. Even though everyone understands what they really mean, they're far less likely to lead to escalation than less polite forms.
- danaris 7y ago
  I believe that was more or less his point.

tempguy9999 7y ago

I'd guess it's a convention of that society, and means no more than our (peculiar, in my view) manner of the writing of some letters starting "Dear Sir" and ending "I remain faithfully yours ...", or similar words. I think this may be a register (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_%28sociolinguistics%29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Register_%28sociolinguistics%2...)

Gibbon1 7y ago
I remember reading a letter translated from Arabic to English. It sounded a lot like these letters to Ea-Nasir.

bandrami 7y ago

> but it seems people from 4000 years ago had better empathy than us. I see you're not from the South. Ask someone who is what "bless your heart" actually means.

throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
Well... what does it mean