4 ms·

How about instead of endless discussions about gray areas and ambiguities we simply worry only about two categories: - Clearly a lie and criminally so. - Migh

How about instead of endless discussions about gray areas and ambiguities we simply worry only about two categories: - Clearly a lie and criminally so. - Might be a lie or not, but out of the scope of this law. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough.

raxxorrax 7y ago
The current situation is good enough.
- diffeomorphism 7y ago
  Maybe, yet there is still a lively discussion whether more tools or actions are necessary (e.g. Cambridge analytica, election interference, pizzagate and a guy storming into the restaurant with a gun based on that misinformation,...). I think most of that is probably already adequately covered by existing laws, but that selective (non)enforcement is potentially a big problem.
Nasrudith 7y ago
That still sounds horrifyingly abusable which is the exact opposite of "good enough". Criminalizing "lies" sounds like the exact sort of thing that would be useful to cover up abuses of power. We already saw how "Espionage" was used for undeclared Wars with the Pentagon Papers. Now imagine Cointelpro also being covered or police brutality.
brutt 7y ago
How you will charge external players for their coordinated fake-news attack on USA? Local laws are useless in international space, but they still can be used to suppress local opposition. Edit: remove "Russians".
- diffeomorphism 7y ago
  Red herring.
  - brutt 7y ago
    Fake news at scale are invented by RF, as part of their Informational War on West. Mentioning of major player in fake news, which produces them on scale with massive government support, is not red herring, because we have border-less Internet. I'm from Europe. We have euvsdisinfo.eu site here, which raises this issue: https://euvsdisinfo.eu/why-facebook-is-more-revealing-on-nudity-than-on-russian-disinformation/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/why-facebook-is-more-revealing-on-nud... . USA just ignores it.
    - diffeomorphism 7y ago
      Mentioning "laws are useless because the Russians" is a red herring.
      - brutt 7y ago
        Understood, thank you. Comment updated.

raxxorrax 7y ago

The current situation is good enough.

diffeomorphism 7y ago
Maybe, yet there is still a lively discussion whether more tools or actions are necessary (e.g. Cambridge analytica, election interference, pizzagate and a guy storming into the restaurant with a gun based on that misinformation,...). I think most of that is probably already adequately covered by existing laws, but that selective (non)enforcement is potentially a big problem.

Nasrudith 7y ago

That still sounds horrifyingly abusable which is the exact opposite of "good enough". Criminalizing "lies" sounds like the exact sort of thing that would be useful to cover up abuses of power. We already saw how "Espionage" was used for undeclared Wars with the Pentagon Papers. Now imagine Cointelpro also being covered or police brutality.

brutt 7y ago

How you will charge external players for their coordinated fake-news attack on USA? Local laws are useless in international space, but they still can be used to suppress local opposition. Edit: remove "Russians".

diffeomorphism 7y ago
Red herring.
- brutt 7y ago
  Fake news at scale are invented by RF, as part of their Informational War on West. Mentioning of major player in fake news, which produces them on scale with massive government support, is not red herring, because we have border-less Internet. I'm from Europe. We have euvsdisinfo.eu site here, which raises this issue: https://euvsdisinfo.eu/why-facebook-is-more-revealing-on-nudity-than-on-russian-disinformation/ https://euvsdisinfo.eu/why-facebook-is-more-revealing-on-nud... . USA just ignores it.
  - diffeomorphism 7y ago
    Mentioning "laws are useless because the Russians" is a red herring.
    - brutt 7y ago
      Understood, thank you. Comment updated.