5 ms·

"Only in the last few months it has been established that 14,000 Uber journeys have involved fraudulent drivers uploading their photos to other driver accounts

"Only in the last few months it has been established that 14,000 Uber journeys have involved fraudulent drivers uploading their photos to other driver accounts - with passengers' safety potentially put at risk getting into cars with unlicensed and suspended drivers." This seems, from a technical perspective, an easy problem to solve with the resources of a public company. Is it the desperation of people who need the money so badly they will constantly cheat the system? Can you design for that?

xwolfi 7y ago
I wonder what we could do, let's think...maybe...a taxi medalion with a public exam ? :D They tried to solve the problem from the wrong angle, and it turns out that the high cost of taxis, while suboptimal for sure, might not be entirely for no reason.
- ReptileMan 7y ago
  Only if the exam is cheap (not easy) and number of medallions is unlimited. (I got your joke, don't worry)
  - bengillies 7y ago
    The prices are listed on this page[1]. Looks pretty expensive to me. [1] https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/apply-for-a-taxi-driver-licence#on-this-page-3 https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing...
    - sacheendra 7y ago
      < 1000 pounds for what is basically license for a livelihood seems cheap.
    - Symbiote 7y ago
      That is for the "black cab" taxis, the ones you can hail by waving on the street. For a private hire vehicle (the kind you telephone or use an app to book), the price is under £700 (under £500 if the driver speaks English). That doesn't seem unreasonable. The GP comment was referring to the American system where the license are traded at very high costs (tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars). https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/private-hire-driver-licence https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing...
    - michaelt 7y ago
      Those are the prices for becoming a black cab driver (allowed to respond to street hails and use taxi ranks) - to drive for Uber only requires a "private hire driver" license. The private hire license avoids the need for "the knowledge" and to have the traditional London black cab. There are still fees involved, of course - but becoming an Uber driver is much less demanding than becoming a black cab driver.
- imtringued 7y ago
  I think a better solution to a lot of problems would be to hand out licenses quickly and revoke them quickly. The value of posessing a license can often be questionable but the ability to stop rule breakers is incredibly useful.
onion2k 7y ago
This seems, from a technical perspective, an easy problem to solve with the resources of a public company. Is it the desperation of people who need the money so badly they will constantly cheat the system? Can you design for that? I don't think the motivation on the part of the drivers who do this is very important. They're intentionally deceiving Uber customers, and in some cases endangering them. That just has to stop, even if the driver is desperate. The point here is that it's Uber's responsibility to stop it happening, and Uber has apparently chosen not to (like you, it's not that hard). That will be very hard to justify, especially as Uber were running TV ads about how they do background checks on all their drivers here in the UK recently.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Other than constant facial recognition via camera pointed at the driver, how does anyone (not just Uber), guarantee that an approved driver doesn’t get out of the car and a non approved driver get in and start driving? Perhaps a selfie with the driver taken by the passengers during the drive would also suffice. In my opinion, Uber has done enough. They provide the passenger with the drivers name and photo. It’s up to the passenger to verify, but Uber should make violations easy to report.
  - JazCE 7y ago
    using the fingerprint reader on a phone to accept any job?
    - darkwater 7y ago
      Fingerprint on a phone (either iOS or Android) only authenticates the local phone user, it doesn't really expose any mean of unique identification to the app. So, basically even if you enforce fingerprinting to use the app, it would just authenticate/match whatever fingerprint was registered in the underlying OS.
  - us0r 7y ago
    >It’s up to the passenger to verify, but Uber should make violations easy to report. They are. Click a trip, scroll down, click "my driver was unprofessional", click "my driver didnt match the profile in my app". The problem is most people dont report stuff to uber. I hear stories all the time from people and everytime I ask if they reported the driver they say no.
JazCE 7y ago
Surely a decent solution would be for the uber driver having to use their fingerprint to initialise the app before every journey (as long as they're not using a galaxy s10)
PJDK 7y ago
How do you stop one person signing up, doing the whole verification process correctly and then someone else using the app/driving the car? The only safeguard that springs to mind is providing a photo of the driver to the user, but that's already implemented. You could also do spot checks (no idea if they do or not), but that's not going to eliminate the problem just reduce it.
- us0r 7y ago
  They have had this since 2016[0]. The problem is you have uber logic behind it. The only time it asks me to verify is when I'm on the highway and turn the app off and back on. I guess they think I'm tossing the phone to the car next to me while going 65? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/9/23/13030682/uber-driver-selfie-facial-scan-fraud-security https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...
ptah 7y ago
if you can't design for that, then your business is failing a fundamental requirement
pjc50 7y ago
> Is it the desperation of people who need the money so badly they will constantly cheat the system? Can you design for that? This is the Internet. If you don't design for people cheating you, they will wreck your system as soon as it becomes popular enough to be visible.
- Jommi 7y ago
  Which is the exact problem. Ubers smaller competitors have no incentive for heavy regulatory features because they can get away with it. That in turn pushes Uber to not implement them either, until the very last moment.
lysp 7y ago
That happens with taxis too in Australia. Unauthorised drivers who don't match their picture ID driving.

xwolfi 7y ago

I wonder what we could do, let's think...maybe...a taxi medalion with a public exam ? :D They tried to solve the problem from the wrong angle, and it turns out that the high cost of taxis, while suboptimal for sure, might not be entirely for no reason.

ReptileMan 7y ago
Only if the exam is cheap (not easy) and number of medallions is unlimited. (I got your joke, don't worry)
- bengillies 7y ago
  The prices are listed on this page[1]. Looks pretty expensive to me. [1] https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/apply-for-a-taxi-driver-licence#on-this-page-3 https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing...
  - sacheendra 7y ago
    < 1000 pounds for what is basically license for a livelihood seems cheap.
  - Symbiote 7y ago
    That is for the "black cab" taxis, the ones you can hail by waving on the street. For a private hire vehicle (the kind you telephone or use an app to book), the price is under £700 (under £500 if the driver speaks English). That doesn't seem unreasonable. The GP comment was referring to the American system where the license are traded at very high costs (tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars). https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing/private-hire-driver-licence https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/taxis-and-private-hire/licensing...
  - michaelt 7y ago
    Those are the prices for becoming a black cab driver (allowed to respond to street hails and use taxi ranks) - to drive for Uber only requires a "private hire driver" license. The private hire license avoids the need for "the knowledge" and to have the traditional London black cab. There are still fees involved, of course - but becoming an Uber driver is much less demanding than becoming a black cab driver.
imtringued 7y ago
I think a better solution to a lot of problems would be to hand out licenses quickly and revoke them quickly. The value of posessing a license can often be questionable but the ability to stop rule breakers is incredibly useful.

onion2k 7y ago

This seems, from a technical perspective, an easy problem to solve with the resources of a public company. Is it the desperation of people who need the money so badly they will constantly cheat the system? Can you design for that? I don't think the motivation on the part of the drivers who do this is very important. They're intentionally deceiving Uber customers, and in some cases endangering them. That just has to stop, even if the driver is desperate. The point here is that it's Uber's responsibility to stop it happening, and Uber has apparently chosen not to (like you, it's not that hard). That will be very hard to justify, especially as Uber were running TV ads about how they do background checks on all their drivers here in the UK recently.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
Other than constant facial recognition via camera pointed at the driver, how does anyone (not just Uber), guarantee that an approved driver doesn’t get out of the car and a non approved driver get in and start driving? Perhaps a selfie with the driver taken by the passengers during the drive would also suffice. In my opinion, Uber has done enough. They provide the passenger with the drivers name and photo. It’s up to the passenger to verify, but Uber should make violations easy to report.
- JazCE 7y ago
  using the fingerprint reader on a phone to accept any job?
  - darkwater 7y ago
    Fingerprint on a phone (either iOS or Android) only authenticates the local phone user, it doesn't really expose any mean of unique identification to the app. So, basically even if you enforce fingerprinting to use the app, it would just authenticate/match whatever fingerprint was registered in the underlying OS.
- us0r 7y ago
  >It’s up to the passenger to verify, but Uber should make violations easy to report. They are. Click a trip, scroll down, click "my driver was unprofessional", click "my driver didnt match the profile in my app". The problem is most people dont report stuff to uber. I hear stories all the time from people and everytime I ask if they reported the driver they say no.

JazCE 7y ago

Surely a decent solution would be for the uber driver having to use their fingerprint to initialise the app before every journey (as long as they're not using a galaxy s10)

PJDK 7y ago

How do you stop one person signing up, doing the whole verification process correctly and then someone else using the app/driving the car? The only safeguard that springs to mind is providing a photo of the driver to the user, but that's already implemented. You could also do spot checks (no idea if they do or not), but that's not going to eliminate the problem just reduce it.

us0r 7y ago
They have had this since 2016[0]. The problem is you have uber logic behind it. The only time it asks me to verify is when I'm on the highway and turn the app off and back on. I guess they think I'm tossing the phone to the car next to me while going 65? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/9/23/13030682/uber-driver-selfie-facial-scan-fraud-security https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2...

ptah 7y ago

if you can't design for that, then your business is failing a fundamental requirement

pjc50 7y ago

> Is it the desperation of people who need the money so badly they will constantly cheat the system? Can you design for that? This is the Internet. If you don't design for people cheating you, they will wreck your system as soon as it becomes popular enough to be visible.

Jommi 7y ago
Which is the exact problem. Ubers smaller competitors have no incentive for heavy regulatory features because they can get away with it. That in turn pushes Uber to not implement them either, until the very last moment.

lysp 7y ago

That happens with taxis too in Australia. Unauthorised drivers who don't match their picture ID driving.