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This taboo against sex, one of the most natural acts of almost all lifeforms, is THE single most bizarre facet of human society. Porn stars and sex workers sho

This taboo against sex, one of the most natural acts of almost all lifeforms, is THE single most bizarre facet of human society. Porn stars and sex workers should be celebrated instead of being ostracized. There aren't many other professions who contribute as much to reducing stress and fulfilling the fantasies of so many people across the world. Most sex workers do it without any thanks and barely make enough from it to survive. Not only they have to brave a constant risk of disease and violence, they have to carry this outdated stigma throughout their lives, not only for themselves but also their families, even after they quit.

catchmilk 7y ago
Just for the sake of being the devil's advocate - I think this is highly debatable. One, you have the not-so-uncommon addiction to porn. Because of the wide and free availability of porn content today, it's very easy for a person that's susceptible to addiction to fall into a vicious hole. Secondly, it can lead to spreading aggressive, potentially dangerous fetishes. I might be wrong about this, but I think a lot of the dangerous fetishes wouldn't necessarily exist (or at least wouldn't be so popular) if it wasn't for them being so readily available on the internet. Sex workers would be an entire discussion topic on its own - but I think it's safe to say that the information available on the dark net crosses all lines - from legal to human rights. I'm not suggesting we should shun it or disallow it completely - but I think celebrating would also be an extreme that's not worth the consequences.
- Scapeghost 7y ago
  > One, you have the not-so-uncommon addiction to porn. Because of the wide and free availability of porn content today, it's very easy for a person that's susceptible to addiction to fall into a vicious hole. You can say this about anything. Movies, video games, the internet, alcohol, sugary foods, fast cars, social media upvotes. > Secondly, it can lead to spreading aggressive, potentially dangerous fetishes. Again, this statement can also apply to things like violence in movies and games. And much has been said against that kind of reasoning :) > I'm not suggesting we should shun it or disallow it completely - but I think celebrating would also be an extreme that's not worth the consequences. I didn't mean literally celebrating like parading them around on a palanquin, but treating them with respect at the very least. Create an environment that at least allows some discussion about it, instead of indignantly shutting these topics down upon hearing the first syllable.
croon 7y ago
Not only that, the legal repercussions from that stigma means they have to operate in the shadow, leaving them an unprotected worker class. The SESTA/FOSTA bills were terrible in this regard.
krapp 7y ago
It's not so much a facet of human society as it is a facet of the influence of Christianity and Judaism on Western culture. Other cultures have their own taboos regarding sex, of course, but it seems only the Judeo-Christian religions regard sexuality (in particular, female sexuality) as inherently evil or corrupting, certainly more so than violence, which is often seen as noble because it's linked, Biblically, with divine justice.
- lordlimecat 7y ago
  > the Judeo-Christian religions regard sexuality (in particular, female sexuality) as inherently evil or corrupting I'm not sure where you read this but it's terribly wrong. There's an entire book devoted to the beauty of marital relations (Song of Songs), and Paul explicitly commands married husbands and wives to give themselves to their spouse (that is, sex). I'm aware of at least one instance where a puritan wife in the 17th century went to the congregation with a complaint that the husband was not having sex with her. The husband was rebuked for it. Christianity regards sex as intimate and reserved solely for marriage; beautiful within that boundary and wrong outside of it.
  - BickNowstrom 7y ago
    The Song of Songs was adapted from Egyptian love songs. The ancient Egyptians elevated the woman and her sexuality. It is a bit out of place in the Bible, which mostly warns against the power of female sexuality (Christianity written by men and all). Female sexuality is seen as responsible for the fall of humanity. The first wive of Adam was evil and did not listen, and Eve corrupted Adam into biting the apple. After that, female sexuality and will was something to be contained and cleaned: > But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. > Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. > When a woman has a discharge, and the discharge in her body is blood, she shall be in her menstrual impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening. And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean.
raxxorrax 7y ago
I don't think all forms of shame is induced by society and is party intrinsic of human sexual behavior. Most see intimacy as contrarian to overly public display and see it devalued by the perceived vulgarity. And I think there can be some truth to that. Culture often was defined by the absence of anything sexual, since it was believed to adhere to higher forms of aesthetics instead of intrinsic sexual urges. I think everyone should decide what constitutes the correct balance for themselves. It is just that these transgression of shame are mostly attributed to sex workers to their disadvantage. But there aren't only happy sex workers and I think it isn't difficult to comprehend why people might want to refrain from engaging in intimacy with sex workers at all. Because to them intimacy cannot be reduced to stress relieve or their own fantasies. I don't think it is that bizarre. But it is a huge problem if sex workers get penalized because they transgress your own personal boundaries.
- Scapeghost 7y ago
  > I don't think all forms of shame is induced by society and is party intrinsic of human sexual behavior. Most see intimacy as contrarian to overly public display and see it devalued by the perceived vulgarity. I'm from a highly religious, Middle-Eastern culture. In the backwaters of this backwater, it's unthinkable for a male and female to even hold hands in public, let alone have a friendly greeting with a peck on the cheek. Nobody would think even once about such acts in Western societies. Now consider violence: people, in every culture, generally don't feel uncomfortable about depictions of violence in media. Violence is presented as glamorous as soon as children are conscious of their environment. Through toys, comics, cartoons. But none of them dare to show even a kiss or a romantic relationship. Why do you think that depictions of injury and death are considered more socially acceptable than the depictions of love and the act of creating life? Can it not be reversed? > Culture often was defined by the absence of anything sexual, since it was believed to adhere to higher forms of aesthetics instead of intrinsic sexual urges. Imposing communal rules upon sexuality is more likely a form of control over mating rights: By denying potential competitors' access to mates, we hope to increase ours. Almost all animals do this, we just codify it into our social constructs. And this fact is very apparent when you consider that the ruling classes of cultures which repress sex, never really follow their own rules.
blfr 7y ago
There is nothing natural about porn. Watching other people paid to have sex with strangers via a long chain of technological and market devices is about as far away from nature as you can get.
- Scapeghost 7y ago
  Porn has existed since the first parchment, and even cats and dogs and seals and dolphins kind of masturbate. What about movies, music, books, games, sports? Why do you think porn stars should not be treated like any other actor, artist, author, musician, developer, sportsperson?
  - blfr 7y ago
    Professional sports strike me as the same kind kind of aberration. People engaging in no physical activity while watching paid professionals playing sports via a long chain of technological and market devices. It even lacks the communal experience of actually going to an event. A lot of the things we do and consume are poor, distant derivatives that barely resemble the real thing. Pornography is easily among the worst offenders.
    - Scapeghost 7y ago
      > watching paid professionals playing sports via a long chain of technological and market devices. Again you bring technology into it, when spectator sports have existed long before the first Colosseum. > Pornography is easily among the worst offenders. How? Why?
      - blfr 7y ago
        I bring in technology because neither pornography nor professional sports as we know them today would exist without it. Colosseum was a rare thing, and it hosted live events with the communal aspect of it. If you go your school league game, you're not doing sports but you hang out with people from your community. Modern professional sports are much like pornography: completely empty in both regards.
BurningCycles 7y ago
>This taboo against sex, one of the most natural acts of almost all lifeforms We're not talking about just 'sex', we are talking about the creation of entertainment media were a person is paid to have sex with another person/persons. I wouldn't call it a 'natural act'. I used to be totally fine with porn, and to some extent I still am, however I do see it as a problem as well. First off I think that the ease with which really hardcore porn is increasingly accessable today means very young kids are able to get their first views of sex being extremely warped. This creates expectations of what sex is that many are likely uncomfortable with, but will perform because porn has made it 'the norm'. Add to this how most porn turns sex into something borderline mechanical and/or centered around a fetish, which makes perfect sense from a 'product standpoint', but it also means that practically all porn sells the whole idea of sex as merely people using eachother to 'get off'. The second problem I have is with the industry and its employees, I can't recall any ex-porn worker having anything good to say about their previous profession, instead what I've seen described comes across as a really shitty situation, where many turn to drugs in order to make it through 'shoots' and then again to forget.
- Scapeghost 7y ago
  > The second problem I have is with the industry and its employees, I can't recall any ex-porn worker having anything good to say about their previous profession, instead what I've seen described comes across as a really shitty situation, where many turn to drugs in order to make it through 'shoots' and then again to forget. This can be said about the "mainstream" showbiz industry as well. Remember all the child stars with ugly adulthoods? As for spawning fetishes and promoting unrealistic expectations, again, you can say this about a lot of mainstream media too. Critics of porn seem to ignore other industries with the same problems when singling out porn for these criticisms, because !!sex!!
  - BurningCycles 7y ago
    Sure, but sex is something practically every human will engage in, and typically starting at a young age. I don't know exactly what the fetishes/unrealistic expectations you say mainstream media is promoting, but I doubt they have as direct impact as porn does. As for mainstream showbiz, I certainly don't hold it in high regard either, but I do think it does better than the porn industry. Basically I would be very hesitant about my kid going into showbiz, meanwhile I would do anything in my power to dissuade my kid from going into porn.

catchmilk 7y ago

Just for the sake of being the devil's advocate - I think this is highly debatable. One, you have the not-so-uncommon addiction to porn. Because of the wide and free availability of porn content today, it's very easy for a person that's susceptible to addiction to fall into a vicious hole. Secondly, it can lead to spreading aggressive, potentially dangerous fetishes. I might be wrong about this, but I think a lot of the dangerous fetishes wouldn't necessarily exist (or at least wouldn't be so popular) if it wasn't for them being so readily available on the internet. Sex workers would be an entire discussion topic on its own - but I think it's safe to say that the information available on the dark net crosses all lines - from legal to human rights. I'm not suggesting we should shun it or disallow it completely - but I think celebrating would also be an extreme that's not worth the consequences.

Scapeghost 7y ago
> One, you have the not-so-uncommon addiction to porn. Because of the wide and free availability of porn content today, it's very easy for a person that's susceptible to addiction to fall into a vicious hole. You can say this about anything. Movies, video games, the internet, alcohol, sugary foods, fast cars, social media upvotes. > Secondly, it can lead to spreading aggressive, potentially dangerous fetishes. Again, this statement can also apply to things like violence in movies and games. And much has been said against that kind of reasoning :) > I'm not suggesting we should shun it or disallow it completely - but I think celebrating would also be an extreme that's not worth the consequences. I didn't mean literally celebrating like parading them around on a palanquin, but treating them with respect at the very least. Create an environment that at least allows some discussion about it, instead of indignantly shutting these topics down upon hearing the first syllable.

croon 7y ago

Not only that, the legal repercussions from that stigma means they have to operate in the shadow, leaving them an unprotected worker class. The SESTA/FOSTA bills were terrible in this regard.

krapp 7y ago

It's not so much a facet of human society as it is a facet of the influence of Christianity and Judaism on Western culture. Other cultures have their own taboos regarding sex, of course, but it seems only the Judeo-Christian religions regard sexuality (in particular, female sexuality) as inherently evil or corrupting, certainly more so than violence, which is often seen as noble because it's linked, Biblically, with divine justice.

lordlimecat 7y ago
> the Judeo-Christian religions regard sexuality (in particular, female sexuality) as inherently evil or corrupting I'm not sure where you read this but it's terribly wrong. There's an entire book devoted to the beauty of marital relations (Song of Songs), and Paul explicitly commands married husbands and wives to give themselves to their spouse (that is, sex). I'm aware of at least one instance where a puritan wife in the 17th century went to the congregation with a complaint that the husband was not having sex with her. The husband was rebuked for it. Christianity regards sex as intimate and reserved solely for marriage; beautiful within that boundary and wrong outside of it.
- BickNowstrom 7y ago
  The Song of Songs was adapted from Egyptian love songs. The ancient Egyptians elevated the woman and her sexuality. It is a bit out of place in the Bible, which mostly warns against the power of female sexuality (Christianity written by men and all). Female sexuality is seen as responsible for the fall of humanity. The first wive of Adam was evil and did not listen, and Eve corrupted Adam into biting the apple. After that, female sexuality and will was something to be contained and cleaned: > But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. > Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. > When a woman has a discharge, and the discharge in her body is blood, she shall be in her menstrual impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until the evening. And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean.

raxxorrax 7y ago

I don't think all forms of shame is induced by society and is party intrinsic of human sexual behavior. Most see intimacy as contrarian to overly public display and see it devalued by the perceived vulgarity. And I think there can be some truth to that. Culture often was defined by the absence of anything sexual, since it was believed to adhere to higher forms of aesthetics instead of intrinsic sexual urges. I think everyone should decide what constitutes the correct balance for themselves. It is just that these transgression of shame are mostly attributed to sex workers to their disadvantage. But there aren't only happy sex workers and I think it isn't difficult to comprehend why people might want to refrain from engaging in intimacy with sex workers at all. Because to them intimacy cannot be reduced to stress relieve or their own fantasies. I don't think it is that bizarre. But it is a huge problem if sex workers get penalized because they transgress your own personal boundaries.

Scapeghost 7y ago
> I don't think all forms of shame is induced by society and is party intrinsic of human sexual behavior. Most see intimacy as contrarian to overly public display and see it devalued by the perceived vulgarity. I'm from a highly religious, Middle-Eastern culture. In the backwaters of this backwater, it's unthinkable for a male and female to even hold hands in public, let alone have a friendly greeting with a peck on the cheek. Nobody would think even once about such acts in Western societies. Now consider violence: people, in every culture, generally don't feel uncomfortable about depictions of violence in media. Violence is presented as glamorous as soon as children are conscious of their environment. Through toys, comics, cartoons. But none of them dare to show even a kiss or a romantic relationship. Why do you think that depictions of injury and death are considered more socially acceptable than the depictions of love and the act of creating life? Can it not be reversed? > Culture often was defined by the absence of anything sexual, since it was believed to adhere to higher forms of aesthetics instead of intrinsic sexual urges. Imposing communal rules upon sexuality is more likely a form of control over mating rights: By denying potential competitors' access to mates, we hope to increase ours. Almost all animals do this, we just codify it into our social constructs. And this fact is very apparent when you consider that the ruling classes of cultures which repress sex, never really follow their own rules.

blfr 7y ago

There is nothing natural about porn. Watching other people paid to have sex with strangers via a long chain of technological and market devices is about as far away from nature as you can get.

Scapeghost 7y ago
Porn has existed since the first parchment, and even cats and dogs and seals and dolphins kind of masturbate. What about movies, music, books, games, sports? Why do you think porn stars should not be treated like any other actor, artist, author, musician, developer, sportsperson?
- blfr 7y ago
  Professional sports strike me as the same kind kind of aberration. People engaging in no physical activity while watching paid professionals playing sports via a long chain of technological and market devices. It even lacks the communal experience of actually going to an event. A lot of the things we do and consume are poor, distant derivatives that barely resemble the real thing. Pornography is easily among the worst offenders.
  - Scapeghost 7y ago
    > watching paid professionals playing sports via a long chain of technological and market devices. Again you bring technology into it, when spectator sports have existed long before the first Colosseum. > Pornography is easily among the worst offenders. How? Why?
    - blfr 7y ago
      I bring in technology because neither pornography nor professional sports as we know them today would exist without it. Colosseum was a rare thing, and it hosted live events with the communal aspect of it. If you go your school league game, you're not doing sports but you hang out with people from your community. Modern professional sports are much like pornography: completely empty in both regards.

BurningCycles 7y ago

>This taboo against sex, one of the most natural acts of almost all lifeforms We're not talking about just 'sex', we are talking about the creation of entertainment media were a person is paid to have sex with another person/persons. I wouldn't call it a 'natural act'. I used to be totally fine with porn, and to some extent I still am, however I do see it as a problem as well. First off I think that the ease with which really hardcore porn is increasingly accessable today means very young kids are able to get their first views of sex being extremely warped. This creates expectations of what sex is that many are likely uncomfortable with, but will perform because porn has made it 'the norm'. Add to this how most porn turns sex into something borderline mechanical and/or centered around a fetish, which makes perfect sense from a 'product standpoint', but it also means that practically all porn sells the whole idea of sex as merely people using eachother to 'get off'. The second problem I have is with the industry and its employees, I can't recall any ex-porn worker having anything good to say about their previous profession, instead what I've seen described comes across as a really shitty situation, where many turn to drugs in order to make it through 'shoots' and then again to forget.

Scapeghost 7y ago
> The second problem I have is with the industry and its employees, I can't recall any ex-porn worker having anything good to say about their previous profession, instead what I've seen described comes across as a really shitty situation, where many turn to drugs in order to make it through 'shoots' and then again to forget. This can be said about the "mainstream" showbiz industry as well. Remember all the child stars with ugly adulthoods? As for spawning fetishes and promoting unrealistic expectations, again, you can say this about a lot of mainstream media too. Critics of porn seem to ignore other industries with the same problems when singling out porn for these criticisms, because !!sex!!
- BurningCycles 7y ago
  Sure, but sex is something practically every human will engage in, and typically starting at a young age. I don't know exactly what the fetishes/unrealistic expectations you say mainstream media is promoting, but I doubt they have as direct impact as porn does. As for mainstream showbiz, I certainly don't hold it in high regard either, but I do think it does better than the porn industry. Basically I would be very hesitant about my kid going into showbiz, meanwhile I would do anything in my power to dissuade my kid from going into porn.