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China's behavior is a good illustration of the fact that if Nazi Germany had kept the Holocaust restricted to its own borders and not invaded other countries we
by Causality1 7y ago
China's behavior is a good illustration of the fact that if Nazi Germany had kept the Holocaust restricted to its own borders and not invaded other countries we would have happily sat back and let them do it.
- api 7y agoThat is unfortunately most likely true. Stalin is a case in point.
- arkades 7y agoThere’s more truth to this statement than I am comfortable with.
- Mediterraneo10 7y agoAt least during Nazi Germany there was some interest in helping Jews escape. Yes, instances when ships of Jewish refugees were turned away from e.g. the USA have gone down in infamy, but there were still things like the Kindertransport. When it comes to the plight of the Uighurs, even fellow Muslim countries are loathe to provide any big public help due to the fear of alienating China.
- whatshisface 7y agoIf there's no support for Uighurs, who leaked the documents?
- djohnston 7y agoi think about this too. hell, if hitler hadn't invaded russia / western europe the nazi's might still hold central europe
- anonymousse1234 7y agoSoviet Union did exactly that - they had gulags. North Korea is doing exactly that as we speak.
- monocasa 7y agoI mean, our prison system is worse than gulags, and we get away with it too.
- mtts 7y agoRead up on the gulags sometime.
- baby 7y agoIt’s not a competition, we’ll probably look back at prisons in the future and be like “wtf were they thinking?” the same way our generation looks at previous generations and the normalization of slavery.
- monocasa 7y agoHowever, the vitriolic response that people have to the very idea that we could possibly be doing the same things is worthy of some introspection today.
- monocasa 7y agoRead up on our prisons. Like, what metric do you want to use? I'll let you pick.
- kolanos 7y agoThe White Sea & Baltic Canal was dug by hand by Gulag prisoners. You can't be serious? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Conditions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag#Conditions
- monocasa 7y agoWe have hard labor. That's why the 13th amendment makes an exemption to the ban on slavery for prisoners. In the gulags that effort was at least spent on public works projects, here it's to make rich people slightly richer with next to free labor.
- bluejekyll 7y agoI realize this might be wrong and based on not reading enough history about it, but I’ve always understood that the Holocaust was not well documented until after the war. Obviously many people fleeing Germany and the occupied countries during that period, knew something bad was happening, but overall, it’s my understanding that before and during the war, the rest of the world really wasn’t aware, or at least not aware about how bad it was. It was the invasion of other countries that was cause to fight Germany. It was much less of a humanitarian act, though after the war it’s easy to paint it as one.
- freedomben 7y agoWe knew. FDR is even on record making statements about how we weren't there to save the Jews. The US had opportunities to bomb the train system being used to transport the Jews and didn't. I can't provide links right now (I'll try to circle back later), but we absolutely knew what was going on. We just didn't want to believe it.
- walshemj 7y agoA lot of intel was from ULTRA
- acdha 7y agoIt was more complicated than that: the Polish government in exile knew at least as early as 1940 and by at least 1942 those had been corroborated by allies and there were official reports presented to allied governments, the UN, and covered in major newspapers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mass_Extermination_of_Jews_in_German_Occupied_Poland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mass_Extermination_of_Jews... https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1942/02/13/85259194.html?pageNumber=12 https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1942/02/13/852... The catch, of course, is that governments don’t act with a single voice: during war time intelligence agencies would be loathe to confirm anything if it revealed information about their sources, and there were enough anti-semites and Nazi sympathizers that all but the most conclusive evidence might be downplayed or lead to consequences (reportedly, concern losing support in Hungary was a factor in not leading with what was happening to the Jews).
- kofejnik 7y agoyep, what Stalin did in Ukraine was comparable, while helpful idiots in Western press were praising him for education and healthcare
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- acjohnson55 7y agoMost of today's elite countries have unspeakable atrocities under their belt, even if you only consider the post-1900 modern era.
- growlist 7y agoAs do plenty of non-elite countries. What's your point? The Aztecs, for example, were practising human sacrifice until the Europeans pitched up. And in Papua New Guinea they were still eating people within living memory. I could also mention Cambodia, Rwanda - but I suppose that's all the West's fault as well.
- trianglem 7y agoEat a couple of “enemies” is way better than mass incarceration in my opinion. I mean it’s just meat and only a few dozen people were killed...