4 ms·

Not true. For instance it’s pretty easy to create a programming language forum that bans all off-topic content, including identity politics in programming, work

by oefrha 7y ago

Not true. For instance it’s pretty easy to create a programming language forum that bans all off-topic content, including identity politics in programming, workplace politics, etc. Unless you believe in the bullshit that is the absence of X == automatically siding what whatever X considers its opponent (usually “the establishment” or “the status quo”) at that moment in time.

fzeroracer 7y ago
So let's say you have a forum that completely bans all off-topic discussion. What happens when a prominent user experiences something negative? Like for example they die, or face harassment from people either inside or outside the community. Do you ban them for breaking the cardinal rule, or allow your forum to become political? It's not at all easy to create a forum that bans all off topic discussion. I've ran smaller forums before. If you honestly think you can do better then by all means, give it a try. You'll quickly realize that your users are human, and you'll be forced to make decisions that are intrinsically political. Thee is no such thing as a forum that can avoid political discussion. Just one that aligns with your beliefs.
- Lewton 7y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/r/CatsStandingUp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CatsStandingUp/
  - icebraining 7y ago
    /r/CatsStandingUp is a political affirmation against the banning of pet cats: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45347136 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45347136
    - Lewton 7y ago
      nope You can disagree with having cats as pets and still post pictures of cats standing up
- oefrha 7y ago
  I’ve been in a managing position of a small forum (around a hundred active members at a time, plus a few thousand lurking members) before. We remove off-topic content but don’t kick anyone other than spammers and outright trolls. There have been some cases of conflict; they were handled privately. Public complaints are not allowed (see “we remove off-topic content”). Members may complain to admins and admins may talk to both sides, but since we don’t kick anyone, the most dire consequences (from us) are that one or both parties get a temp ban from a day to a week if they keep posting complaints or arguing publicly. Most conflicts go away eventually; a few members may have left due to conflicts, but that’s okay, they just blend into the organic churn. > they die, or face harassment from people either inside or outside the community. I fail to see why some online admins can stop any of these.
  - fzeroracer 7y ago
    Right and what you've just admitted is that said forum is indeed political. The moderation and admin style is selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Users leave as a result of either typical churn or because they don't align well with the forum. Every single forum is going to grow a culture around it consisting of memes, ways of talking, interacting with others etc which are all very political in nature. The fact that you've seen conflicts and have had to resolve them is proof of this. It's just human nature and fits the very definition of politics.
    - oefrha 7y ago
      > selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Yeah, we select users who can stay on topic and who can contain anger and resolve conflicts like adults (or rather, like decent human beings; we did have teenage users). Not a tough ask, and neither outrageous nor outlandish for a topical forum.
      - fzeroracer 7y ago
        Sure, but in that process you have to make decisions and weigh how to punish users. You have a set of rules and ideals users have to follow, which form the governance structure of your forum. And the definition of politics is the art or science of governing. Forums operate much like miniature societies with their own laws and best conduct. Forums might be entities targetted towards very specific subjects but that doesn't free them from being political. It just means that the forum is aligned to your specific beliefs.
friendlybus 7y ago
"no politics" is still a political position established by the programming authors as a form of control.
- UweSchmidt 7y ago
  Demanding to discuss politics at all times could be the position of a vocal minority hoping to have disproportionate impact. It is derailing topics and ultimately trolling. Many food related discussions on reddit ignore both health and animal rights considerations. Would it be appropriate to bring these topics up each time someone posts their burger? Likely not
  - friendlybus 7y ago
    Just saying the categories are always there. It could be the position of a vocal minority, but also of the government that seeks to change what you are doing politically, or a mass uprising wishing to change what you do. Control will always exist, so I think it just needs to be integrated into a small order that can be managed, rather than jump into one of the always/never/any categories to stonewall it.
    - UweSchmidt 7y ago
      I don't mind a moderate, organic dose of politics.

by oefrha 7y ago

fzeroracer 7y ago

So let's say you have a forum that completely bans all off-topic discussion. What happens when a prominent user experiences something negative? Like for example they die, or face harassment from people either inside or outside the community. Do you ban them for breaking the cardinal rule, or allow your forum to become political? It's not at all easy to create a forum that bans all off topic discussion. I've ran smaller forums before. If you honestly think you can do better then by all means, give it a try. You'll quickly realize that your users are human, and you'll be forced to make decisions that are intrinsically political. Thee is no such thing as a forum that can avoid political discussion. Just one that aligns with your beliefs.

Lewton 7y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/CatsStandingUp/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CatsStandingUp/
- icebraining 7y ago
  /r/CatsStandingUp is a political affirmation against the banning of pet cats: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45347136 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45347136
  - Lewton 7y ago
    nope You can disagree with having cats as pets and still post pictures of cats standing up
oefrha 7y ago
I’ve been in a managing position of a small forum (around a hundred active members at a time, plus a few thousand lurking members) before. We remove off-topic content but don’t kick anyone other than spammers and outright trolls. There have been some cases of conflict; they were handled privately. Public complaints are not allowed (see “we remove off-topic content”). Members may complain to admins and admins may talk to both sides, but since we don’t kick anyone, the most dire consequences (from us) are that one or both parties get a temp ban from a day to a week if they keep posting complaints or arguing publicly. Most conflicts go away eventually; a few members may have left due to conflicts, but that’s okay, they just blend into the organic churn. > they die, or face harassment from people either inside or outside the community. I fail to see why some online admins can stop any of these.
- fzeroracer 7y ago
  Right and what you've just admitted is that said forum is indeed political. The moderation and admin style is selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Users leave as a result of either typical churn or because they don't align well with the forum. Every single forum is going to grow a culture around it consisting of memes, ways of talking, interacting with others etc which are all very political in nature. The fact that you've seen conflicts and have had to resolve them is proof of this. It's just human nature and fits the very definition of politics.
  - oefrha 7y ago
    > selecting users that best fit into the forum culture. Yeah, we select users who can stay on topic and who can contain anger and resolve conflicts like adults (or rather, like decent human beings; we did have teenage users). Not a tough ask, and neither outrageous nor outlandish for a topical forum.
    - fzeroracer 7y ago
      Sure, but in that process you have to make decisions and weigh how to punish users. You have a set of rules and ideals users have to follow, which form the governance structure of your forum. And the definition of politics is the art or science of governing. Forums operate much like miniature societies with their own laws and best conduct. Forums might be entities targetted towards very specific subjects but that doesn't free them from being political. It just means that the forum is aligned to your specific beliefs.

friendlybus 7y ago

"no politics" is still a political position established by the programming authors as a form of control.

UweSchmidt 7y ago
Demanding to discuss politics at all times could be the position of a vocal minority hoping to have disproportionate impact. It is derailing topics and ultimately trolling. Many food related discussions on reddit ignore both health and animal rights considerations. Would it be appropriate to bring these topics up each time someone posts their burger? Likely not
- friendlybus 7y ago
  Just saying the categories are always there. It could be the position of a vocal minority, but also of the government that seeks to change what you are doing politically, or a mass uprising wishing to change what you do. Control will always exist, so I think it just needs to be integrated into a small order that can be managed, rather than jump into one of the always/never/any categories to stonewall it.
  - UweSchmidt 7y ago
    I don't mind a moderate, organic dose of politics.