4 ms·

Would you be upset if a US protesting app was removed? Do you think a protesting app would be allowed in the US if it was effective? (I'm genuinely asking becau

by mrobot 7y ago

Would you be upset if a US protesting app was removed? Do you think a protesting app would be allowed in the US if it was effective? (I'm genuinely asking because i don't think i have ever seen an effective protest app in the US)

throwGuardian 7y ago
> i don't think i have ever seen an effective protest app in the US Twitter and Facebook serve protesters very well
- mrobot 7y ago
  It seems popular opinion on the left that social networks like these would be censored if a real revolution ever actually popped off in the US.
  - setr 7y ago
    the left would push for a censor if the right were (perceived) to be leading the revolution, and the right would do so if the left were trying. And right now, the right (accidentally?) won, so the left are naturally reacting to anything that might have lead to that victory: namely, social media.
d0ne 7y ago
Yes, I would be very upset. Yes, it would be allowed in the US. If it was removed for anything other normal violations of an Apps Stores TOS it would be violating several portions of the the First Amendment including freedom of speech, for the right to assemble, and the right to petition the government.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#First_Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#F...
- mrobot 7y ago
  Couldn't they just change the TOS to say something like you can't use apps to evade law enforcement, which they might do under pressure from the police unions?
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    Police unions don't have that kind of power from either a political or legal standpoint.
    - mrobot 7y ago
      Maybe it wouldn't be shut down by police unions but what about lawmakers and politicians? So you believe that an app known to be enabling and protecting protests on the level of what's happening in Hong Kong, with regular destruction of property, molotovs, knives to police, etc. would be allowed to stay on the app store? Hong Kong protests seem like a lot more activity than "petitioning the government", closer to revolution i think. I'm not sure even twitter would stay up. I feel like it would take lots of lawyers on your side. Maybe, I guess i'm not convinced yet.
      - reaperducer 7y ago
        So you believe that an app known to be enabling and protecting protests on the level of what's happening in Hong Kong, with regular destruction of property, molotovs, knives to police, etc. would be allowed to stay on the app store? Yes, it's called Twitter. It's happened many times before, complete with fire and mayhem. In the United States, protests are rarely just "the people" because the politicians are also "the people." A subset of politicians who oversee the police are very often in the front of any protest march. In addition to community leaders, clergy, and other people the police don't want to screw with. I know there are a few Hong Kong politicians involved in those protests, but not at the level that is typical in the United States. In spite of the sensationalized and rare incidents that are publicized on the internet, in America politicians = people > police.
        7y ago
- paulcole 7y ago
  By your logic doesn’t Apple already violate the First Amendment by not allowing porno apps? That doesn’t seem to have kept them up at night or caused any significant consequences.
- andrekandre 7y ago
  > it would be violating several portions of the the First Amendment including freedom of speech, for the right to assemble, and the right to petition the government. i am pretty sure the bill of rights is about what the government can’t do, and doesn’t affect private parties like apple...
  - levythe 7y ago
    Public gathering points on scales much larger than any public square could facilitate ought to abide by the principles of the US Constitution, even if, and this is an if since I'm admittedly ignorant to this detail, their behavior is not legally obligated by it.
on_and_off 7y ago
Not exactly an US protesting app but there is some precedent : https://gizmodo.com/apple-blocks-pulitzer-prize-winning-cartoonist-from-app-5517890 https://gizmodo.com/apple-blocks-pulitzer-prize-winning-cart... and I am still upset about it. My line of thought has not changed in 10 years : having one company gatekeeping what apps can be installed on a smart device you own is an aberration that will only lead to more situations like these.
seanmcdirmid 7y ago
Yes, of course. But the USA hardly needs such things when people can just use whatsapp or Facebook directly to organize. The HK protesters were using apps to solve problems the USA protesters never had.

by mrobot 7y ago

throwGuardian 7y ago

> i don't think i have ever seen an effective protest app in the US Twitter and Facebook serve protesters very well

mrobot 7y ago
It seems popular opinion on the left that social networks like these would be censored if a real revolution ever actually popped off in the US.
- setr 7y ago
  the left would push for a censor if the right were (perceived) to be leading the revolution, and the right would do so if the left were trying. And right now, the right (accidentally?) won, so the left are naturally reacting to anything that might have lead to that victory: namely, social media.

d0ne 7y ago

Yes, I would be very upset. Yes, it would be allowed in the US. If it was removed for anything other normal violations of an Apps Stores TOS it would be violating several portions of the the First Amendment including freedom of speech, for the right to assemble, and the right to petition the government.[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#First_Amendment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#F...

mrobot 7y ago
Couldn't they just change the TOS to say something like you can't use apps to evade law enforcement, which they might do under pressure from the police unions?
- reaperducer 7y ago
  Police unions don't have that kind of power from either a political or legal standpoint.
  - mrobot 7y ago
    Maybe it wouldn't be shut down by police unions but what about lawmakers and politicians? So you believe that an app known to be enabling and protecting protests on the level of what's happening in Hong Kong, with regular destruction of property, molotovs, knives to police, etc. would be allowed to stay on the app store? Hong Kong protests seem like a lot more activity than "petitioning the government", closer to revolution i think. I'm not sure even twitter would stay up. I feel like it would take lots of lawyers on your side. Maybe, I guess i'm not convinced yet.
    - reaperducer 7y ago
      So you believe that an app known to be enabling and protecting protests on the level of what's happening in Hong Kong, with regular destruction of property, molotovs, knives to police, etc. would be allowed to stay on the app store? Yes, it's called Twitter. It's happened many times before, complete with fire and mayhem. In the United States, protests are rarely just "the people" because the politicians are also "the people." A subset of politicians who oversee the police are very often in the front of any protest march. In addition to community leaders, clergy, and other people the police don't want to screw with. I know there are a few Hong Kong politicians involved in those protests, but not at the level that is typical in the United States. In spite of the sensationalized and rare incidents that are publicized on the internet, in America politicians = people > police.
      - 7y ago
paulcole 7y ago
By your logic doesn’t Apple already violate the First Amendment by not allowing porno apps? That doesn’t seem to have kept them up at night or caused any significant consequences.
andrekandre 7y ago
> it would be violating several portions of the the First Amendment including freedom of speech, for the right to assemble, and the right to petition the government. i am pretty sure the bill of rights is about what the government can’t do, and doesn’t affect private parties like apple...
- levythe 7y ago
  Public gathering points on scales much larger than any public square could facilitate ought to abide by the principles of the US Constitution, even if, and this is an if since I'm admittedly ignorant to this detail, their behavior is not legally obligated by it.

on_and_off 7y ago

Not exactly an US protesting app but there is some precedent : https://gizmodo.com/apple-blocks-pulitzer-prize-winning-cartoonist-from-app-5517890 https://gizmodo.com/apple-blocks-pulitzer-prize-winning-cart... and I am still upset about it. My line of thought has not changed in 10 years : having one company gatekeeping what apps can be installed on a smart device you own is an aberration that will only lead to more situations like these.

seanmcdirmid 7y ago

Yes, of course. But the USA hardly needs such things when people can just use whatsapp or Facebook directly to organize. The HK protesters were using apps to solve problems the USA protesters never had.