9 ms·
This is a pet peeve of mine as well. A lot of undergrads are not really looking around any more. Universities offer their first data science courses in year one
by high_derivative 7y ago
This is a pet peeve of mine as well. A lot of undergrads are not really looking around any more. Universities offer their first data science courses in year one. Undergrads mapping out their paths towards becoming research scientists with dollar signs in their eyes.
I think this is not wise career bet at all. There will always be spots for a select few 'pure ML' grads, but at the post phd level the really good jobs are getting pretty thin unless you come from the right adviser + right school + right publication track.
On the other hand, if you add a secondary useful skill, like having a really good understanding of distributed systems, or networking, or databases, or embedded systems, or being 'just' a solid overall software engineer, you (i) have something to fall back on if ML dreams do not work out, and (ii) have an edge by being just the right fit for specific teams, while also still competing in the general pool.
I think there will be a rude awakening on this in 3-4 years for many.
- codebolt 7y agoAnother tactic for an undergrad looking for a leg up in their career might be to do a double major of CS + some other engineering field or finance. You can really outperform your peers and become a unique asset in a given industry by having an expert understanding of the domain paired with expertise in software development.
- tenaciousDaniel 7y agoThis is true. My first job as a dev was in fintech, but I know literally nothing about finance, nor do I care to. I was not a very good developer in that arena, because you really need domain knowledge to be truly effective in some fields.
- asdfman123 7y agoI majored in geophysics and it doesn't really help me as a software engineer in Houston (although I haven't tried to really exploit it for the most money, because I felt guilty about working in oil and left). What's killer though is having a master's in a field and programming experience.
- selimthegrim 7y agoDid you have to leave Houston too?
- asdfman123 7y agoNope, happily employed here. What prompted you to leave?
- selimthegrim 7y agoNope, haven’t arrived yet. Just scoping it out.
- asdfman123 7y agoNah, Houston is fine and there are plenty of enterprise jobs, and they are constantly hiring. If you need a reference, send me a PM and I'll give you my email address.
- selimthegrim 7y agoI’m not sure how to PM you on here...
- asdfman123 7y agoYeah, sorry, I'm used to reddit. Leave your email? Leave a temporary email? I would list mine but I don't like linking my online identities to my real one.
- selimthegrim 7y agogmail is my HN handle
- jt0 7y agoI'm not in Houston or oil/gas, but trying to find a niche with the same background. I'm not seeing a great demand for this combo commercially unfortunately.
- brookhaven_dude 7y agoGood combinations - CS + Finance, CS + Operations Research, CS + Economics, CS + Physics
- MiracleUser 7y ago>CS + Operations Research this is me. I can't recommend it enough.
- andy_ppp 7y agoI loved doing OR for my final project at Uni, it was great solving the travelling salesman problem for a taxi network routing it to the correct people and picking people up in realtime around an imaginary map of points. I remember thinking as I took a cab into halls from the station "wouldn't this be amazing if I could have a device that told me exactly where each cab was at any point and maybe hook into the satnav somehow". In 1999 [1]. [1] https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB720GB720&sxsrf=ACYBGNRalVeeyMJjrU49N2rYgvvNwar24Q:1574458503337&q=phones+1999&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwje97f-4v7lAhUFUhUIHWrFAboQsAR6BAgGEAE&biw=1441&bih=1066 https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C5CHFA_enGB720GB720&sxsrf...
- MiracleUser 7y agotalk about having the right idea at the wrong time!
- andy_ppp 7y agoAh, I would never in a million years been enough of a shitbag to build Uber so it's a moot point. But still.
- riffraff 7y agoIn my school all CS students took at least one OR class. It was one of the best classes I've taken and some of the things still feel like magic.
- asdfman123 7y agoThat's true, but how many people in the field started out with the right specialty to begin with? They might be disappointed graduating post-ML bubble, especially if they have their hearts set on half a million dollar salaries, but they'll do fine with a PhD in CS. Then again, I'm not part of the SV world, so YMMV.
- WalterBright 7y ago> That's true, but how many people in the field started out with the right specialty to begin with? What's hot in technology changes all the time. The smart strategy for an undergraduate is to: 1. cover the fundamentals 2. take the honors track (where the professor and the students want to be there) 3. avoid "hands-on" classes, which you can learn on the job as required 4. take at least 3 years of math. Really. Don't avoid it. If you can't do math, you can't do engineering or science. As for me, my degree is in Mechanical Engineering, with a side of Aero/Astro. And yet I work on compilers :-)
- nine_k 7y agoYes, always play dual-class, so to say. For every pair of important fields X and Y, there are numerous people who can do X very well but can't do any Y, and vice versa. If you do both X and Y well enough, you are at a huge advantage. Trivially, being good at frontend coding and at UX design (cognitive aspects, etc) helps. Being good at designing software and being good at talking the language of your business is super helpful, this what's required at the director / VP Eng level. And yes, do take the math. After just 2 years of university math (as an embedded systems major, I had to later study myself to grab some missing algebra, some category theory, etc, to grasp SICP on one hand, and Haskell on another. This helped me become seriously better at writing and understanding code in industrial languages.
- nloladze 7y agoNever went to college but I can agree with everything you said. I would add to actually go out and build something. A portfolio is immense and has opened doors for me otherwise that never would be.
- deleted 7y ago
- cuddlybacon 7y ago> A lot of undergrads are not really looking around any more. My friend is doing a CS degree now and is being told by profs that you won't get a job without an ML background.
- mateo411 7y agoI don't think that's true. The vast majority of software development jobs require no ML at all. I don't see that changing in the next 10 to 20 years.
- lumost 7y agoEven further the majority of work in ml driven products is not related to the ML model.
- t_serpico 7y agothis 1000%.
- cuddlybacon 7y agoI don't think it is true either. But my friend tells me that multiple profs tell him that he needs to learn ML.
- topkai22 7y agoI learned ML in school 13 years ago. I've been happily employed since then at a major tech company with increasing responsibility and the only time I've really needed that background was to call BS on a given project needing a custom ML component.
- parsimo2010 7y agoSpeaking as faculty myself, the only job advice that you should listen to from an academic is how to get a job in academia. Even the ones that had a job in industry prior to their academic job have a reason for preferring their academic job. Their firsthand knowledge of the industry is stale at best, and their current information is all hearsay. If you want to get a job in industry, you need to get advice from alumni that have (recently) gotten a job in the industry you are interested in.