9 ms·

Just because it's common doesn't mean it's not also dodgy.

hbosch 7y ago
If you go to a grocery store, you'll find many versions of cheddar cheese specifically. Some of it is blocked, some slices, some shredded. You'll also find that in at least one of these forms, the store has it's own brand – called a "private label" – of cheddar cheese, probably shredded. Because Kroger, or Wal Mart, or Whole Foods has said "hey, selling cheddar cheese is a good idea and we can compete in our own stores". So they make a competing congruent product, maybe quality and prices are lower, but that's OK. The customer can make their own decision on which cheese to buy. This is exactly the same concept as Amazon's private label businesses.
- kadoban 7y ago
  There isn't a design there that's being copied or a brand being appropriated. I mean however many centuries back someone figured out cheddar cheese, but nobody alive has a proprietary claim to it.
  - mipmap04 7y ago
    What about sodas like Dr. Pepper vs. Dr. Thunder? Do you think producing Dr. Thunder is ethically questionable from a business standpoint?
    - kadoban 7y ago
      I don't think so personally. It is a pretty blatant ripoff of course, but Dr Pepper has also been around for a long time now (at least a century?) I don't think copyrights/patents/whatever apply, but if you think of the principles behind them as a bit of a guide, designing a novel product should ideally let you profit off it exclusively for a while (to incentivize invention), but probably not forever (to allow competition and lower prices).
    - adolph 7y ago
      Or Oreo and Hydrox? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox
      - LMo 7y ago
        Thanks for posting; Hydrox becomes the imitator...
  - zerocrates 7y ago
    Somewhat of a tangent, but in the EU there is "brand" type protection for many types of cheese (think Parmesan), they have to come from the specified geographic area and use proper production methods, or else use a different name.
ghaff 7y ago
Serious question. Why is it dodgy?
- gist 7y ago
  Why is it necessary to precede a question with 'serious question'? (Meaning why do people reading comments assume a negative (snarky) unless otherwise pointed out the question is 'serious'. Likewise why when mentioning something which is generally viewed in a negative light (but defending it) is it needed to say 'I hate spam as much as anyone but'.
  - mipmap04 7y ago
    Well now I have no idea if you’re asking a serious question! To give a serious answer, it seems like most questions on forums like these are often not real questions, but rhetorical.
- dkarl 7y ago
  It's dodgy for the same reason it's dodgy to print and sell a new novel without paying the author, for the same reason it's dodgy to clone a successful app and sell it without any attempt to improve on it. On one hand you have a system where companies support the creation of new designs so that they can profit from the reproduction of them, and on the other you have companies operating parasitically so they can get a share of the profits without providing any support to the designers.
  - blotter_paper 7y ago
    I would be interested in seeing the results of an HN poll: "Do you agree with the existence of intellectual property laws?" It seems like a divisive topic here, and I suspect this is where the disagreement on dodginess comes from.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      I also think there’s conflation here between knock-offs that do in fact violate IP laws which isn’t just dodgy but a violation of the law. And knockoffs that take the same general form or appearance of branded goods—with or without the same level of quality.

If you go to a grocery store, you'll find many versions of cheddar cheese specifically. Some of it is blocked, some slices, some shredded. You'll also find that in at least one of these forms, the store has it's own brand – called a "private label" – of cheddar cheese, probably shredded. Because Kroger, or Wal Mart, or Whole Foods has said "hey, selling cheddar cheese is a good idea and we can compete in our own stores". So they make a competing congruent product, maybe quality and prices are lower, but that's OK. The customer can make their own decision on which cheese to buy. This is exactly the same concept as Amazon's private label businesses.

kadoban 7y ago
There isn't a design there that's being copied or a brand being appropriated. I mean however many centuries back someone figured out cheddar cheese, but nobody alive has a proprietary claim to it.
- mipmap04 7y ago
  What about sodas like Dr. Pepper vs. Dr. Thunder? Do you think producing Dr. Thunder is ethically questionable from a business standpoint?
  - kadoban 7y ago
    I don't think so personally. It is a pretty blatant ripoff of course, but Dr Pepper has also been around for a long time now (at least a century?) I don't think copyrights/patents/whatever apply, but if you think of the principles behind them as a bit of a guide, designing a novel product should ideally let you profit off it exclusively for a while (to incentivize invention), but probably not forever (to allow competition and lower prices).
  - adolph 7y ago
    Or Oreo and Hydrox? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrox
    - LMo 7y ago
      Thanks for posting; Hydrox becomes the imitator...
- zerocrates 7y ago
  Somewhat of a tangent, but in the EU there is "brand" type protection for many types of cheese (think Parmesan), they have to come from the specified geographic area and use proper production methods, or else use a different name.

ghaff 7y ago

Serious question. Why is it dodgy?

gist 7y ago
Why is it necessary to precede a question with 'serious question'? (Meaning why do people reading comments assume a negative (snarky) unless otherwise pointed out the question is 'serious'. Likewise why when mentioning something which is generally viewed in a negative light (but defending it) is it needed to say 'I hate spam as much as anyone but'.
- mipmap04 7y ago
  Well now I have no idea if you’re asking a serious question! To give a serious answer, it seems like most questions on forums like these are often not real questions, but rhetorical.
dkarl 7y ago
It's dodgy for the same reason it's dodgy to print and sell a new novel without paying the author, for the same reason it's dodgy to clone a successful app and sell it without any attempt to improve on it. On one hand you have a system where companies support the creation of new designs so that they can profit from the reproduction of them, and on the other you have companies operating parasitically so they can get a share of the profits without providing any support to the designers.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  I would be interested in seeing the results of an HN poll: "Do you agree with the existence of intellectual property laws?" It seems like a divisive topic here, and I suspect this is where the disagreement on dodginess comes from.
  - ghaff 7y ago
    I also think there’s conflation here between knock-offs that do in fact violate IP laws which isn’t just dodgy but a violation of the law. And knockoffs that take the same general form or appearance of branded goods—with or without the same level of quality.