4 ms·

From what I hear, this is due to the promo driven culture at Google. You can good reviews/promos based on new products that get pushed to market, nobody cares a

by itg 7y ago

From what I hear, this is due to the promo driven culture at Google. You can good reviews/promos based on new products that get pushed to market, nobody cares about maintenance at Google.

lrem 7y ago
I got my first promotion in Google for preventing a half-forgotten system from imploding.
- Roritharr 7y ago
  That's actually a bad sign, as it shows how notable it is at Google when something like this is prevented... ️ Preventing Products from failing should be SOP.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    But consider incentives. If nobody gets promoted for doing it, nobody does it. Promotion for maintenance isn't a bad sign if your corporate culture is "hire the smartest people in the room and let them build great products;" you're going to have to incentivize maintenance somehow, and "maintain it or you're fired" is counter to your cultural goals.
  - romanows 7y ago
    It's bad that there are half forgotten systems but almost every sizable business that has been around for many years will have this. On mobile, but there's a famous story of a server that had been drywalled over and had been running just fine, unnoticed and unattended, for years. It's good to see that maintenance is rewarded at Google at least occasionally. I only ever hear that it is only new products that are rewarded. And I notice new people piling on to issues in their product trackers that I've been following for years.
    - theandrewbailey 7y ago
      > On mobile, but there's a famous story of a server that had been drywalled over and had been running just fine, unnoticed and unattended, for years. This one? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/12/missing_novell_server_discovered_after/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/12/missing_novell_serv...
  - ISL 7y ago
    Promoting people who notice impending implosions should also be SOP.
    - pavel_lishin 7y ago
      Leading to a black market in manufactured implosion-causing problems!
  - 0xffff2 7y ago
    So... people shouldn't be promoted for keeping existing services running, but they should keep those services running as SOP? Sounds like a recipe for misaligned incentives to me.
  - ninth_ant 7y ago
    It’s not at all a bad sign. Any large and complex system will have parts rot from lack of maintenance, and giving awards to people who identify and correct this ahead of disasters is a good thing.
uncletaco 7y ago
I heard that Facebook and Google collect engineers and let them do whatever because its better than them being productive at a competitor.
- pm90 7y ago
  Textbook anti competitive behavior. Google needs to be broken up.
  - thebokehwokeh2 7y ago
    When people say this, what exactly does this mean? If you break Google up into Gmail, Search, Calendar, etc... what stops those from within, who have intimate knowledge of the innerworkings and HR related matters within Alphabet as a whole, from simply secretly colluding and sharing resources off the books?
    - dmix 7y ago
      I’ve asked this question an bunch of times and never got a serious reply. There’s no strong anti-trust angle or end game to these things, it’s purely vindictive because it’s trendy to hate on SV. Sometimes companies are shitty but it doesn’t justify such a strong hammer. If anything their search products or mobile products would themselves need to be broken up, (or FBs network and Instagram) not the whole company... but even then it’s not like they will go away.
      - BoorishBears 7y ago
        So I don't necessarily support it, and I agree a lot of technical people just hate SV and have no idea what it'd mean, but as a developer I can see some benefits. Here's an example from Apple: Only Apple Maps can show you maps on a locked screen. Until iOS 13 Siri tightly integrated with Apple Music ways no other app could. Apple Pay is the only payment method that can work with a locked phone. Only Apple's app store can install apps. Only Apple's messaging apps can create new contacts. All built-in apps only call other Apple apps for supporting functionality, for example Reminders will only open Apple Maps, Siri smart suggestions for ETA only work with Apple Maps as well. All Apple apps get an immense head start of integrating with new APIs and OS features. - So if you create a competitor to one of those Apple apps, from day 1 you're at a disadvantage. If they were broken up, all competitors would be on a much more even playing field with Apple's apps. And Apple is just an easy example, Android is much more open than iOS, but Google Play Services is still a guillotine over anyone who dares to go against Google's wishes. Imagine if Google services were separate companies so a claimed misdeed on one couldn't end what is the core of billions of people's online existence...
tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
Nobody cares about maintenance at most places.

by itg 7y ago

From what I hear, this is due to the promo driven culture at Google. You can good reviews/promos based on new products that get pushed to market, nobody cares about maintenance at Google.

lrem 7y ago

I got my first promotion in Google for preventing a half-forgotten system from imploding.

Roritharr 7y ago
That's actually a bad sign, as it shows how notable it is at Google when something like this is prevented... ️ Preventing Products from failing should be SOP.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  But consider incentives. If nobody gets promoted for doing it, nobody does it. Promotion for maintenance isn't a bad sign if your corporate culture is "hire the smartest people in the room and let them build great products;" you're going to have to incentivize maintenance somehow, and "maintain it or you're fired" is counter to your cultural goals.
- romanows 7y ago
  It's bad that there are half forgotten systems but almost every sizable business that has been around for many years will have this. On mobile, but there's a famous story of a server that had been drywalled over and had been running just fine, unnoticed and unattended, for years. It's good to see that maintenance is rewarded at Google at least occasionally. I only ever hear that it is only new products that are rewarded. And I notice new people piling on to issues in their product trackers that I've been following for years.
  - theandrewbailey 7y ago
    > On mobile, but there's a famous story of a server that had been drywalled over and had been running just fine, unnoticed and unattended, for years. This one? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/12/missing_novell_server_discovered_after/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/12/missing_novell_serv...
- ISL 7y ago
  Promoting people who notice impending implosions should also be SOP.
  - pavel_lishin 7y ago
    Leading to a black market in manufactured implosion-causing problems!
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  So... people shouldn't be promoted for keeping existing services running, but they should keep those services running as SOP? Sounds like a recipe for misaligned incentives to me.
- ninth_ant 7y ago
  It’s not at all a bad sign. Any large and complex system will have parts rot from lack of maintenance, and giving awards to people who identify and correct this ahead of disasters is a good thing.

uncletaco 7y ago

I heard that Facebook and Google collect engineers and let them do whatever because its better than them being productive at a competitor.

pm90 7y ago
Textbook anti competitive behavior. Google needs to be broken up.
- thebokehwokeh2 7y ago
  When people say this, what exactly does this mean? If you break Google up into Gmail, Search, Calendar, etc... what stops those from within, who have intimate knowledge of the innerworkings and HR related matters within Alphabet as a whole, from simply secretly colluding and sharing resources off the books?
  - dmix 7y ago
    I’ve asked this question an bunch of times and never got a serious reply. There’s no strong anti-trust angle or end game to these things, it’s purely vindictive because it’s trendy to hate on SV. Sometimes companies are shitty but it doesn’t justify such a strong hammer. If anything their search products or mobile products would themselves need to be broken up, (or FBs network and Instagram) not the whole company... but even then it’s not like they will go away.
    - BoorishBears 7y ago
      So I don't necessarily support it, and I agree a lot of technical people just hate SV and have no idea what it'd mean, but as a developer I can see some benefits. Here's an example from Apple: Only Apple Maps can show you maps on a locked screen. Until iOS 13 Siri tightly integrated with Apple Music ways no other app could. Apple Pay is the only payment method that can work with a locked phone. Only Apple's app store can install apps. Only Apple's messaging apps can create new contacts. All built-in apps only call other Apple apps for supporting functionality, for example Reminders will only open Apple Maps, Siri smart suggestions for ETA only work with Apple Maps as well. All Apple apps get an immense head start of integrating with new APIs and OS features. - So if you create a competitor to one of those Apple apps, from day 1 you're at a disadvantage. If they were broken up, all competitors would be on a much more even playing field with Apple's apps. And Apple is just an easy example, Android is much more open than iOS, but Google Play Services is still a guillotine over anyone who dares to go against Google's wishes. Imagine if Google services were separate companies so a claimed misdeed on one couldn't end what is the core of billions of people's online existence...

tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago

Nobody cares about maintenance at most places.