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Between these “authentic” fake reviews, the usual fake reviews and counterfeit products, Amazon seems open to serious competition. I’ve already started buying

Between these “authentic” fake reviews, the usual fake reviews and counterfeit products, Amazon seems open to serious competition. I’ve already started buying things from Target and Walmart for things that are commonly counterfeited, like batteries and SD cards. I know they have a marketplace too but I avoid them for these items. For me, the biggest thing Amazon has going for it is the dead-simple return policy. I’m comfortable rolling the dice with many products because I can easily return it, if it ends up being garbage. Repackaging and returning can sometimes be a pain, so I’ll be reluctant to gamble sometimes. However, I’ve been more lazily repacking items and it hasn’t been an issue.

dgellow 7y ago
Is the issue of counterfeit products a worldwide problem with Amazon? I'm just asking because I'm in Europe and use Amazon quite often for electronics, and haven't faced issues so far. Could it be that the problem is mostly in the US? It could be that I just avoided counterfeited goods by chance, or just didn't notice...
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  I am in America and have yet to get screwed by a counterfeit. I wonder if you might be on to something though. Maybe the counterfeits are all stored in specific states and ship from there more frequently since I assume Amazon wants to ship from the closest warehouse to you. Would be good to know what state most of these people live in to see if thats just the pattern. I say this cause I have always heard you can buy counterfeits in NY of any major clothing brand or even electronics.
  - MichaelApproved 7y ago
    > I am in America and have yet to get screwed by a counterfeit. Well, how do you know? Maybe they’ve been good counterfeits? Another possibility is that you’ve never seen the genuine version, so you don’t know what to compare the counterfeit to.
    - londons_explore 7y ago
      I buy almost entirely counterfeit/knockoff goods. Quality is variable, but paying only 20% of the retail price for a similarish item works out well for me. I don't really understand why anyone would buy originals to be honest... I am an engineer, so claims like 'it's made in china and might explode' I can take with an appropriate sized grain of salt. One thing to watch out for is that chinese made devices are not expected to be safe if you don't follow the instructions. For example, if a device says 'do not charge for more than 2 hours', that means if you leave it on charge overnight it will catch fire. In the USA, devices need to be safe even if the instructions aren't followed.
      - rdtwo 7y ago
        I don’t know what industry you work on where it’s ever ok for things to catch on fire if the user doesn’t follow instructions, but at least in mine even the word fire is out of bounds.
        zentiggr 7y ago
        Marketing?
        boring_twenties 7y ago
        So the worst case scenario is all the marketing departments burn down?
        zentiggr 7y ago
        Best case scenario? I've always thought there should be a .adv TLD, and if you're caught serving anything but first party information outside of that, there would be severe penalties. Let one TLD take all the cutthroat inhumane tracking, malware, scum adserving, all of it, and let the rest of us browse in peace.
        Noumenon72 7y ago
  - amerkhalid 7y ago
    I have stopped buying from Amazon because I have received a few product which had something off but I could not tell what. For example, we used to buy GE fridge filters from Amazon. Every once in a while we would receive a filter which would change taste of water in weird way. New filters usually make water taste slightly different but it was just a bit more off. But we used to ignore that until we start reading about fake products. So next time when we experienced weird water taste with filter change, I carefully checked our old filter with the new one and sure enough there were subtle differences. Really impossible to notice accidentally. Since then we started buying filters from Home Depot, and we have had pretty consistent experience so far.
- docdeek 7y ago
  I would be interested in this, too. I use Amazon in France (mostly) and the UK and Germany (ocassionally) and haven’t had the problems that people speak of in relation to counterfiet goods in the US.
  - laurent123456 7y ago
    Never had any issue in France or in the UK either. I got a fake SD card from Priceminister in France, but never from Amazon as far as I can tell.
  - wiether 7y ago
    Same here. Maybe it's more a marketplace issue ? I can't see how and why Amazon would sold counterfeits goods. I've read some reviews complaining about that but it was always from a marketplace seller.
- FractalParadigm 7y ago
  Just want to throw in my $0.02 as a Canadian, but I haven't had any issues with counterfeit goods in the 4 years I've been buying things (mainly electronics) from Amazon. I also haven't heard anything (first hand) about others receiving counterfeit goods either. On that note, while I have no idea how Amazon.com works, on .ca it is pretty clear on a product page whether or not the item is sold/shipped by Amazon or a 3rd party. Whether or not this has any bearing re. counterfeit goods, I generally recommended people buy the "Sold and Shipped by Amazon.ca" option even if a 3rd party's listing is cheaper.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    They commingle supposedly identical items from other sellers. You could thus pay more and still get fakes.
- alibert 7y ago
  I started to freak out a bit when people here started complaining about fake stuff and the whole story about commingled inventory. That was maybe 1 year or 2 ago. I have continued to buy stuff from Amazon in Europe since and I have to report that I did not receive any counterfeit stuff (I believe, I checked everything as best as I can). I bought things ranging from screwdriver, SD cards (famously prone to be fake) to electronic/high tech. Costs ranging from 10€ to 1000€. I'm starting to believe that it is indeed an US problem or like you I'm just lucky?
- jeromegv 7y ago
  I feel the big problems started with Fulfilment by Amazon, when anyone and their mother could start selling directly on Amazon through almost no barrier. From anecdata alone (reading forums on FBA, etc) this program seems less popular in Europe. Americans on FBA that are just there for the quick buck typically stick with US FBA and for some reason I haven't read tons of articles on people in Europe using that as a new revenue generator.
- pergadad 7y ago
  As a European I've definitely received fakes from amazon.DE. But I find the game reviews much more bothersome. Most products I now buy somewhere else but living abroad it's difficult to get everything I 'expect' so sometimes Amazon is the only way (eg i bought a 20l bucket on paint from a German Amazon seller that has a real store, as the branded version including shipping of the heavy thing was 30€ less than the cheapest product I could find locally.
- eternalny1 7y ago
  See the review on this product titled "Changed the formula?" ... This is common, where a manufacturer will reduce costs by taking a formerly imported luxury product and re-create it with different ingredients from a different manufacturer, but all the reviews from the old product remain. https://www.amazon.com/Its-10-Haircare-Miracle-Product/dp/B000TKH6G2?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Its-10-Haircare-Miracle-Product/dp/B0...
degenerate 7y ago
For batteries and other everyday items, I find the AmazonBasics brand a good way to dodge the fake items. Amazon at least stands behind the quality of their own brand. But often it's just as expensive as the other name brands.
- kc0bfv 7y ago
  Watch out, those have been known to explode. I think this was posted here maybe a month ago: https://onezero.medium.com/unraveling-the-secret-supply-chain-behind-an-amazonbasics-battery-e7b9ead4d72e https://onezero.medium.com/unraveling-the-secret-supply-chai...
  - degenerate 7y ago
    Wow, didn't see that - thanks!
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
  > But often it's just as expensive as the other name brands. Sometimes it’s even more expensive. A Wyze smart outlet is $20 for 2. Amazon brand is $25 for one. Wyze https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XZT24B8/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XZT24B8/ Amazon Smart Plug https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZEEFNX/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZEEFNX/
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    The first customer photo for the Wyze is one that caught fire, so maybe you're better off with the Amazon one. Isn't Wyze's market placement as a low-cost alternative, anyways?
atonse 7y ago
I stopped buying important things from Amazon for this reason. I don't want to risk getting counterfeit products. We just got an email from Amazon that they identified that the water filter refills I bought 6 months ago were fake, so they issued a refund. But I hate the idea that they allowed it in the first place itself. And this is something that's affecting the health of my family. (Thankfully our unfiltered tap water won't kill us but still...) We've been trying to avoid Amazon as much as possible and it's been hard. But not impossible. They've got such a head start over everyone else on their solid logistics operation. They're actually open to competition... from ex-Amazonians. It's like all the ex-googlers that left and took those ideas to make open source versions because Google was so far ahead. 1) Retail return policies are mostly liberal. It's the smaller stores that tend to be more stingy. 2) Price Matching solves any issues with regard to lower prices 3) Returning is actually easier since you get the instant gratification of a refund, not 5 days later. Anyway with amazon we've always had to drop it off to UPS, so we don't save time making the trip. The bigger issue is that since Amazon is so large and pervasive everywhere, it's very tough to actually boycott the company. Brands like Whole Foods, Ring, AWS etc are still important parts of our lives and careers.
- heyoni 7y ago
  Couldn’t you just buy from manufacturers directly on amazon?
  - unicornfinder 7y ago
    Even if you do, that doesn't protect you from counterfeits because of commingling.
    - behringer 7y ago
      True, but sometimes I go to the manufacturer's website and order there.
  - crusty 7y ago
    Co-mingeling is exactly right. I bought a Samsung product sold and fulfilled by Amazon and still got a counterfeit. I didn't discover it was counterfeit until after the standard return warranty and when I contacted Amazon, they couldn't have cared less, and basically acted like it was being counterfeit was just another aspect of a product that should be evaluated by a customer during the return period. Amazon can FO and die!
jumbopapa 7y ago
Can't you avoid this issue by buying products that are shipped and sold by Amazon in the same way you buy directly from Target and Walmart? I wish Costco would up their online presence. I always feel safe buying from them.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  No, because Amazon commingles inventory.
  - sct202 7y ago
    They should really make it obvious if it's commingled or not. I've read that some brands can block third parties and some 3rd party sellers can pay Amazon extra to stop their inventory from mixing, which seems like a scam on Amazon's part.
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      When I want to buy something, especially low cost items, I don't want to spend time figuring out if something is commingled or not. Whichever vendor offers me time savings in exchange for good quality products will get my business. Amazon no longer qualifies for that.
    - martin-adams 7y ago
      That only admits that the product receive may not be the same if it came from third party instead of Amazon directly.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
Target does not have a marketplace, so I prefer them over Walmart.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
  True but it's easy to identify and avoid the Walmart marketplace, for now.
- graywh 7y ago
  There are some invite-only third parties selling on target.com. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/02/26/target-like-amazon-welcomes-more-third-parties-sell-its-site/2982013002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/02/26/target-like-... https://www.target.com/p/steel-hammock-stand-10-sunnydaze-decor/-/A-75502971 https://www.target.com/p/steel-hammock-stand-10-sunnydaze-de...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    Terrible news. I hope manufacturers start putting Apple Pay on their websites so I can just order directly.
    - brlewis 7y ago
      Why is paying by credit card a problem?
      - lotsofpulp 7y ago
        Apple Pay is paying by credit card. It's just super convenient not to have to make an account everywhere, and I trust Apple to keep info more secure than the IT team of a manufacturer.
tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago
I started buying from Walmart because it's simply better. You don't have to be a member for free shipping, and you can always pick it up from a store if you got to have it ASAP. Walmart's return policy is also dead-simple. You could return a half-eaten cheeseburger to Walmart for a full refund.
- asdf21 7y ago
  100%. Walmart has always been cutthroat but they don't let their vendors get away with anything.
- MICHAELSEN 7y ago
  Half eaten cheeseburger return? Brother give me your "GO FUND ME" INFORMATION. I am INCLINED to LINE your pockets with some dignity. You are the reason I pay more when I shop. Your a hazard to overhead = the honest consumer (muah) pays enough already. Who bails you out of jail when you shoplift? I will assume NOBODY if you have to return $1 menu fare. Again, you cost me $$$ because my tax dollars pay for you to lay up all day & pretend you found the Bible until your court date 6 months later when you leave on probation. Let me guess *You were the HAMBURGLAR for halloween... Take your candy back if times are that tough...
nebulous1 7y ago
Amazon has a counterfeiting problem alright, but I'm not sure why you think that other places can deal any better with this type of review fraud. It's a legitimate purchase followed by a review. Seems undetectable to me. Biggest Amazon draw for me is price. I make a concerted effort to avoid them these days.
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
  > I'm not sure why you think that other places can deal any better with this type of review fraud. I'm not sure why you think that I think that.
  - nebulous1 7y ago
    > Between these “authentic” fake reviews, the usual fake reviews and counterfeit products, Amazon seems open to serious competition. To me, this implied you thought that competition could do better
    - MichaelApproved 7y ago
      Ah, good point! What I mean is that these problems make people more open to giving another company a try. It lowers the loyalty someone has to Amazon. One of the hardest parts of starting a new company is having customers even consider buying something from you. With all the problems Amazon is having, convincing someone to try an alternative company isn't as difficult. In fact, some are actively looking for alternatives. That goes for buys and sellers.
  - zrobotics 7y ago
    This is a hard problem (in the CS sense). How do you filter a customer that reviews a product paid for w/ their own money, who then later gets reimbursed via PayPal? For the reviewer in the article, how can Amazon know these reviews are purchased? Yes, she buys a lot of stuff, but from Amazon's point of view she may just be a loyal customer- especially given the fact that she mixes personal purchases in. Amazon does a bad job curating reviews, but this is a difficult problem. I'm not sure how anyone could police the type of review fraud discussed in the article effectively.
martin-adams 7y ago
I've received a counterfeit blender and only discovered it after a BBC article showing how they can catch fire. Amazon were very poor in handling that which would have left it to be sold to the next person if I followed their procedures. When it comes to things like batteries and chargers which can catch fire, I always aim to buy direct from the manufacturer or a non-marketplace retailer. In addition, Amazon is unable to stop sellers gaming the system by getting 5 star reviews on one product, then swapping the listing out for a different product. So when looking for an audio cable you will see reviews saying things like "Great Waffle Iron".
- zentiggr 7y ago
  > getting 5 star reviews on one product, then swapping the listing out for a different product. I didn't realize that was even possible... that's a really crappy loophole to leave open. I can't imagine why Amazon would let anyone completely swap out item info that way. Edits, perhaps, but everything?
  - giarc 7y ago
    It's likely an issue with the volume of items for sale. What likely happens is they upload an item with multiple variations (think colours of a shirt). One of the variations is a completely different product. They buy some reviews for the shirt and then remove those from the listing, leaving only the other random product. This happens on Aliexpress all the time. The idea is that they put up a super cheap item ($0.99 iPhone cables), get a ton of sales, some good reviews then swap it out for a more expensive item. Sales rank and reviews stay, and the new more expensive item gets that data. The new item will be much higher margin and/or will never arrive (they just take the money and run).
  - martin-adams 7y ago
    Yep, the issue has been around for longer than 18 months. It's easy to spot if you're a human. I guess Amazon can't or won't address it at scale. I spotted the issue about 2 months ago. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/amazon-review-reuse-fraud https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/amazon-rev...
jrockway 7y ago
I am not sure reviews can ever be profitable business. I think you have to invest a lot of time in the review itself and in getting to know the field. A while ago, I was looking for a wireless phone charger. A friend recommended Wirecutter for reviews. I took a look and bought their favorite charger. It's great! I then later wanted to buy a 3D printer, so used the same strategy. I bought what The Wirecutter recommended, and as soon as I got the printer, I realized that they are completely clueless. The printer I bought doesn't even let you use gcode from an external slicer. You have to use theirs, and it is awful. It adds supports and rafts to everything. It has to be connected to a Windows computer for the entire duration of the print. And it requires you to create an account to even open up their software. It is so unbelievably bad that I was blown away that anyone could like the thing. And that's the problem with reviews; these people don't know anything about 3D printing, so they opened some software, inserted a cube, printed it out, and hey! a cube! wow! But you can't actually do anything useful with that. I ended up extensively researching everything on my own and decided on a Prusa i3, and... yup, exactly what I wanted. I enjoyed spending a day putting it together. I enjoy hacking up the firmware and flashing my own build. I enjoy the huge community of printable add-ons. That is what I really wanted. And, of course, the prints are great. (Why did I read the Wirecutter and not something dedicated to 3D printing? The reality is, everything 3D-printing-related seems like machine-written blogspam. Writing a blog post that contains the word "filament, slicer, spaghetti, and geared hotend" 100 times and getting some ads from AliExpress equals instant wealth beyond your wildest dreams. Or at least that's what Google search rewards.) Anyway, where I'm going with this is that you kind of have to be an expert in the field of products you're going to review. You have to develop extensive test protocols, beyond what manufacturers do internally. Remember all the bad USB Type C cables? Benson had to develop his own hardware and software to properly evaluate them. And that's for a strand of wires. Intelligently testing a 3D printer for its print quality, software quality, and long-term reliability would probably take years. By the time your review came out, the product wouldn't be on the market anymore. So nobody does it, and it will never be profitable to do it. (With the Prusa printers, what gives me hope for reliability is that they manufacturer the printers using their printers. If there is a fatal longevity problem or irritating software bug, they have to fix it, or they can't manufacture any more. That is the real review.) I used to subscribe to Consumer Reports, who does seem to do a lot of testing. But they are too far behind and their test coverage was too limited to be useful to me. I wanted to buy a vacuum cleaner, none of the brands they tested were on the radar (it was just stuff you could buy at wal-mart, nothing high quality). Same with flat-screen TVs. And to some extent, you can never know what the reader of your review really wants. If I were buying a TV, I want it to accept HDMI and Displayport and copy the pixels out of the digital stream directly to the display panel. A pixel value of (0, 0, 0) should emit no light. A pixel value of (255, 255, 255) should blind me. When I press the power button, the TV should begin displaying the input signal the instant the button makes a clicking noise. Not 100ms later, not 500ms later, and certainly not 10 seconds later like my Samsung. Such a product does not exist, so there is no product that would ever make me happy or get a 5 star review. After that, it's just a list of compromises you can accept. (Does anyone even make a non-smart TV? I watch TV so infrequently that I have a new firmware update available every time I turn the thing on. It annoys me greatly.)
fortran77 7y ago
If the top 50 or 100 "brands" got together and launched an on-line store where authenticity was guaranteed, and you'd have one place to order and track your orders, they might be able to compete with Amazon, reducing them to just selling cheap knockoffs, etc.
TurkishPoptart 7y ago
I don't like Amazon's return policy. I ordered a mini-fridge that arrived with a huge dent in it (that didn't _seem_ to affect functionality). I would have either had to wait THREE months for a replacement or enjoy a $20 off rebate.
- skohan 7y ago
  Couldn't you just return it and buy from a different vendor?
skohan 7y ago
I've really come full circle with online retail. I used to go to Amazon because I trusted the consumer experience: I trusted them with my credit card, and I knew I could get a refund if I needed to. But I have so little confidence in what I'm getting from Amazon, that I'm back to going to smaller, more focused online storefronts (camping store for camping stuff, music store for music stuff etc.) because it seems like someone's actually vetting the merchandise. I think it stems from a lack of competition. Since Amazon captures so much of the market, they don't have to be that good anymore.
robotnixon 7y ago
>Repackaging and returning can sometimes be a pain, so I’ll be reluctant to gamble sometimes. However, I’ve been more lazily repacking items and it hasn’t been an issue. Recently they added a return option where you can drop off items at Kohls or a UPS store without repacking them. The store scans a QR code from an email and they handle packing and shipping the item back. Amazon then sends them off in bulk to a processing warehouse. According to my UPS store, most returns aren't even resold on Amazon. They just auction off lots blindly like a storage unit sale.
boring_twenties 7y ago
Repackaging is optional now. A couple of weeks ago I had to return two items and they just emailed me QR codes that I could take to the UPS Store, Whole Foods, or some other nearby business. I just bring the naked item and the QR code, and the store takes care of the rest.
Gibbon1 7y ago
Traditionally companies like Sears, Target and Walmart had buying agents that reviewed products. Imagine man whose job is to review curling irons and blow driers. Those guys acted as gate keepers that determined which products got shelf space. It's harder to game that because if you're a buying agent taking kickbacks you tend to go to jail.

dgellow 7y ago

Is the issue of counterfeit products a worldwide problem with Amazon? I'm just asking because I'm in Europe and use Amazon quite often for electronics, and haven't faced issues so far. Could it be that the problem is mostly in the US? It could be that I just avoided counterfeited goods by chance, or just didn't notice...

giancarlostoro 7y ago
I am in America and have yet to get screwed by a counterfeit. I wonder if you might be on to something though. Maybe the counterfeits are all stored in specific states and ship from there more frequently since I assume Amazon wants to ship from the closest warehouse to you. Would be good to know what state most of these people live in to see if thats just the pattern. I say this cause I have always heard you can buy counterfeits in NY of any major clothing brand or even electronics.
- MichaelApproved 7y ago
  > I am in America and have yet to get screwed by a counterfeit. Well, how do you know? Maybe they’ve been good counterfeits? Another possibility is that you’ve never seen the genuine version, so you don’t know what to compare the counterfeit to.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    I buy almost entirely counterfeit/knockoff goods. Quality is variable, but paying only 20% of the retail price for a similarish item works out well for me. I don't really understand why anyone would buy originals to be honest... I am an engineer, so claims like 'it's made in china and might explode' I can take with an appropriate sized grain of salt. One thing to watch out for is that chinese made devices are not expected to be safe if you don't follow the instructions. For example, if a device says 'do not charge for more than 2 hours', that means if you leave it on charge overnight it will catch fire. In the USA, devices need to be safe even if the instructions aren't followed.
    - rdtwo 7y ago
      I don’t know what industry you work on where it’s ever ok for things to catch on fire if the user doesn’t follow instructions, but at least in mine even the word fire is out of bounds.
      - zentiggr 7y ago
        Marketing?
        boring_twenties 7y ago
        So the worst case scenario is all the marketing departments burn down?
        zentiggr 7y ago
        Best case scenario? I've always thought there should be a .adv TLD, and if you're caught serving anything but first party information outside of that, there would be severe penalties. Let one TLD take all the cutthroat inhumane tracking, malware, scum adserving, all of it, and let the rest of us browse in peace.
        Noumenon72 7y ago
- amerkhalid 7y ago
  I have stopped buying from Amazon because I have received a few product which had something off but I could not tell what. For example, we used to buy GE fridge filters from Amazon. Every once in a while we would receive a filter which would change taste of water in weird way. New filters usually make water taste slightly different but it was just a bit more off. But we used to ignore that until we start reading about fake products. So next time when we experienced weird water taste with filter change, I carefully checked our old filter with the new one and sure enough there were subtle differences. Really impossible to notice accidentally. Since then we started buying filters from Home Depot, and we have had pretty consistent experience so far.
docdeek 7y ago
I would be interested in this, too. I use Amazon in France (mostly) and the UK and Germany (ocassionally) and haven’t had the problems that people speak of in relation to counterfiet goods in the US.
- laurent123456 7y ago
  Never had any issue in France or in the UK either. I got a fake SD card from Priceminister in France, but never from Amazon as far as I can tell.
- wiether 7y ago
  Same here. Maybe it's more a marketplace issue ? I can't see how and why Amazon would sold counterfeits goods. I've read some reviews complaining about that but it was always from a marketplace seller.
FractalParadigm 7y ago
Just want to throw in my $0.02 as a Canadian, but I haven't had any issues with counterfeit goods in the 4 years I've been buying things (mainly electronics) from Amazon. I also haven't heard anything (first hand) about others receiving counterfeit goods either. On that note, while I have no idea how Amazon.com works, on .ca it is pretty clear on a product page whether or not the item is sold/shipped by Amazon or a 3rd party. Whether or not this has any bearing re. counterfeit goods, I generally recommended people buy the "Sold and Shipped by Amazon.ca" option even if a 3rd party's listing is cheaper.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  They commingle supposedly identical items from other sellers. You could thus pay more and still get fakes.
alibert 7y ago
I started to freak out a bit when people here started complaining about fake stuff and the whole story about commingled inventory. That was maybe 1 year or 2 ago. I have continued to buy stuff from Amazon in Europe since and I have to report that I did not receive any counterfeit stuff (I believe, I checked everything as best as I can). I bought things ranging from screwdriver, SD cards (famously prone to be fake) to electronic/high tech. Costs ranging from 10€ to 1000€. I'm starting to believe that it is indeed an US problem or like you I'm just lucky?
jeromegv 7y ago
I feel the big problems started with Fulfilment by Amazon, when anyone and their mother could start selling directly on Amazon through almost no barrier. From anecdata alone (reading forums on FBA, etc) this program seems less popular in Europe. Americans on FBA that are just there for the quick buck typically stick with US FBA and for some reason I haven't read tons of articles on people in Europe using that as a new revenue generator.
pergadad 7y ago
As a European I've definitely received fakes from amazon.DE. But I find the game reviews much more bothersome. Most products I now buy somewhere else but living abroad it's difficult to get everything I 'expect' so sometimes Amazon is the only way (eg i bought a 20l bucket on paint from a German Amazon seller that has a real store, as the branded version including shipping of the heavy thing was 30€ less than the cheapest product I could find locally.
eternalny1 7y ago
See the review on this product titled "Changed the formula?" ... This is common, where a manufacturer will reduce costs by taking a formerly imported luxury product and re-create it with different ingredients from a different manufacturer, but all the reviews from the old product remain. https://www.amazon.com/Its-10-Haircare-Miracle-Product/dp/B000TKH6G2?th=1 https://www.amazon.com/Its-10-Haircare-Miracle-Product/dp/B0...

degenerate 7y ago

For batteries and other everyday items, I find the AmazonBasics brand a good way to dodge the fake items. Amazon at least stands behind the quality of their own brand. But often it's just as expensive as the other name brands.

kc0bfv 7y ago
Watch out, those have been known to explode. I think this was posted here maybe a month ago: https://onezero.medium.com/unraveling-the-secret-supply-chain-behind-an-amazonbasics-battery-e7b9ead4d72e https://onezero.medium.com/unraveling-the-secret-supply-chai...
- degenerate 7y ago
  Wow, didn't see that - thanks!
MichaelApproved 7y ago
> But often it's just as expensive as the other name brands. Sometimes it’s even more expensive. A Wyze smart outlet is $20 for 2. Amazon brand is $25 for one. Wyze https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XZT24B8/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XZT24B8/ Amazon Smart Plug https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZEEFNX/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MZEEFNX/
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  The first customer photo for the Wyze is one that caught fire, so maybe you're better off with the Amazon one. Isn't Wyze's market placement as a low-cost alternative, anyways?

atonse 7y ago

I stopped buying important things from Amazon for this reason. I don't want to risk getting counterfeit products. We just got an email from Amazon that they identified that the water filter refills I bought 6 months ago were fake, so they issued a refund. But I hate the idea that they allowed it in the first place itself. And this is something that's affecting the health of my family. (Thankfully our unfiltered tap water won't kill us but still...) We've been trying to avoid Amazon as much as possible and it's been hard. But not impossible. They've got such a head start over everyone else on their solid logistics operation. They're actually open to competition... from ex-Amazonians. It's like all the ex-googlers that left and took those ideas to make open source versions because Google was so far ahead. 1) Retail return policies are mostly liberal. It's the smaller stores that tend to be more stingy. 2) Price Matching solves any issues with regard to lower prices 3) Returning is actually easier since you get the instant gratification of a refund, not 5 days later. Anyway with amazon we've always had to drop it off to UPS, so we don't save time making the trip. The bigger issue is that since Amazon is so large and pervasive everywhere, it's very tough to actually boycott the company. Brands like Whole Foods, Ring, AWS etc are still important parts of our lives and careers.

heyoni 7y ago
Couldn’t you just buy from manufacturers directly on amazon?
- unicornfinder 7y ago
  Even if you do, that doesn't protect you from counterfeits because of commingling.
  - behringer 7y ago
    True, but sometimes I go to the manufacturer's website and order there.
- crusty 7y ago
  Co-mingeling is exactly right. I bought a Samsung product sold and fulfilled by Amazon and still got a counterfeit. I didn't discover it was counterfeit until after the standard return warranty and when I contacted Amazon, they couldn't have cared less, and basically acted like it was being counterfeit was just another aspect of a product that should be evaluated by a customer during the return period. Amazon can FO and die!

jumbopapa 7y ago

Can't you avoid this issue by buying products that are shipped and sold by Amazon in the same way you buy directly from Target and Walmart? I wish Costco would up their online presence. I always feel safe buying from them.

lotsofpulp 7y ago
No, because Amazon commingles inventory.
- sct202 7y ago
  They should really make it obvious if it's commingled or not. I've read that some brands can block third parties and some 3rd party sellers can pay Amazon extra to stop their inventory from mixing, which seems like a scam on Amazon's part.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    When I want to buy something, especially low cost items, I don't want to spend time figuring out if something is commingled or not. Whichever vendor offers me time savings in exchange for good quality products will get my business. Amazon no longer qualifies for that.
  - martin-adams 7y ago
    That only admits that the product receive may not be the same if it came from third party instead of Amazon directly.

lotsofpulp 7y ago

Target does not have a marketplace, so I prefer them over Walmart.

deleted 7y ago
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MichaelApproved 7y ago
True but it's easy to identify and avoid the Walmart marketplace, for now.
graywh 7y ago
There are some invite-only third parties selling on target.com. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/02/26/target-like-amazon-welcomes-more-third-parties-sell-its-site/2982013002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/02/26/target-like-... https://www.target.com/p/steel-hammock-stand-10-sunnydaze-decor/-/A-75502971 https://www.target.com/p/steel-hammock-stand-10-sunnydaze-de...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Terrible news. I hope manufacturers start putting Apple Pay on their websites so I can just order directly.
  - brlewis 7y ago
    Why is paying by credit card a problem?
    - lotsofpulp 7y ago
      Apple Pay is paying by credit card. It's just super convenient not to have to make an account everywhere, and I trust Apple to keep info more secure than the IT team of a manufacturer.

tyri_kai_psomi 7y ago

I started buying from Walmart because it's simply better. You don't have to be a member for free shipping, and you can always pick it up from a store if you got to have it ASAP. Walmart's return policy is also dead-simple. You could return a half-eaten cheeseburger to Walmart for a full refund.

asdf21 7y ago
100%. Walmart has always been cutthroat but they don't let their vendors get away with anything.
MICHAELSEN 7y ago
Half eaten cheeseburger return? Brother give me your "GO FUND ME" INFORMATION. I am INCLINED to LINE your pockets with some dignity. You are the reason I pay more when I shop. Your a hazard to overhead = the honest consumer (muah) pays enough already. Who bails you out of jail when you shoplift? I will assume NOBODY if you have to return $1 menu fare. Again, you cost me $$$ because my tax dollars pay for you to lay up all day & pretend you found the Bible until your court date 6 months later when you leave on probation. Let me guess *You were the HAMBURGLAR for halloween... Take your candy back if times are that tough...

nebulous1 7y ago

Amazon has a counterfeiting problem alright, but I'm not sure why you think that other places can deal any better with this type of review fraud. It's a legitimate purchase followed by a review. Seems undetectable to me. Biggest Amazon draw for me is price. I make a concerted effort to avoid them these days.

MichaelApproved 7y ago
> I'm not sure why you think that other places can deal any better with this type of review fraud. I'm not sure why you think that I think that.
- nebulous1 7y ago
  > Between these “authentic” fake reviews, the usual fake reviews and counterfeit products, Amazon seems open to serious competition. To me, this implied you thought that competition could do better
  - MichaelApproved 7y ago
    Ah, good point! What I mean is that these problems make people more open to giving another company a try. It lowers the loyalty someone has to Amazon. One of the hardest parts of starting a new company is having customers even consider buying something from you. With all the problems Amazon is having, convincing someone to try an alternative company isn't as difficult. In fact, some are actively looking for alternatives. That goes for buys and sellers.
- zrobotics 7y ago
  This is a hard problem (in the CS sense). How do you filter a customer that reviews a product paid for w/ their own money, who then later gets reimbursed via PayPal? For the reviewer in the article, how can Amazon know these reviews are purchased? Yes, she buys a lot of stuff, but from Amazon's point of view she may just be a loyal customer- especially given the fact that she mixes personal purchases in. Amazon does a bad job curating reviews, but this is a difficult problem. I'm not sure how anyone could police the type of review fraud discussed in the article effectively.

martin-adams 7y ago

I've received a counterfeit blender and only discovered it after a BBC article showing how they can catch fire. Amazon were very poor in handling that which would have left it to be sold to the next person if I followed their procedures. When it comes to things like batteries and chargers which can catch fire, I always aim to buy direct from the manufacturer or a non-marketplace retailer. In addition, Amazon is unable to stop sellers gaming the system by getting 5 star reviews on one product, then swapping the listing out for a different product. So when looking for an audio cable you will see reviews saying things like "Great Waffle Iron".

zentiggr 7y ago
> getting 5 star reviews on one product, then swapping the listing out for a different product. I didn't realize that was even possible... that's a really crappy loophole to leave open. I can't imagine why Amazon would let anyone completely swap out item info that way. Edits, perhaps, but everything?
- giarc 7y ago
  It's likely an issue with the volume of items for sale. What likely happens is they upload an item with multiple variations (think colours of a shirt). One of the variations is a completely different product. They buy some reviews for the shirt and then remove those from the listing, leaving only the other random product. This happens on Aliexpress all the time. The idea is that they put up a super cheap item ($0.99 iPhone cables), get a ton of sales, some good reviews then swap it out for a more expensive item. Sales rank and reviews stay, and the new more expensive item gets that data. The new item will be much higher margin and/or will never arrive (they just take the money and run).
- martin-adams 7y ago
  Yep, the issue has been around for longer than 18 months. It's easy to spot if you're a human. I guess Amazon can't or won't address it at scale. I spotted the issue about 2 months ago. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/amazon-review-reuse-fraud https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nicolenguyen/amazon-rev...

jrockway 7y ago

I am not sure reviews can ever be profitable business. I think you have to invest a lot of time in the review itself and in getting to know the field. A while ago, I was looking for a wireless phone charger. A friend recommended Wirecutter for reviews. I took a look and bought their favorite charger. It's great! I then later wanted to buy a 3D printer, so used the same strategy. I bought what The Wirecutter recommended, and as soon as I got the printer, I realized that they are completely clueless. The printer I bought doesn't even let you use gcode from an external slicer. You have to use theirs, and it is awful. It adds supports and rafts to everything. It has to be connected to a Windows computer for the entire duration of the print. And it requires you to create an account to even open up their software. It is so unbelievably bad that I was blown away that anyone could like the thing. And that's the problem with reviews; these people don't know anything about 3D printing, so they opened some software, inserted a cube, printed it out, and hey! a cube! wow! But you can't actually do anything useful with that. I ended up extensively researching everything on my own and decided on a Prusa i3, and... yup, exactly what I wanted. I enjoyed spending a day putting it together. I enjoy hacking up the firmware and flashing my own build. I enjoy the huge community of printable add-ons. That is what I really wanted. And, of course, the prints are great. (Why did I read the Wirecutter and not something dedicated to 3D printing? The reality is, everything 3D-printing-related seems like machine-written blogspam. Writing a blog post that contains the word "filament, slicer, spaghetti, and geared hotend" 100 times and getting some ads from AliExpress equals instant wealth beyond your wildest dreams. Or at least that's what Google search rewards.) Anyway, where I'm going with this is that you kind of have to be an expert in the field of products you're going to review. You have to develop extensive test protocols, beyond what manufacturers do internally. Remember all the bad USB Type C cables? Benson had to develop his own hardware and software to properly evaluate them. And that's for a strand of wires. Intelligently testing a 3D printer for its print quality, software quality, and long-term reliability would probably take years. By the time your review came out, the product wouldn't be on the market anymore. So nobody does it, and it will never be profitable to do it. (With the Prusa printers, what gives me hope for reliability is that they manufacturer the printers using their printers. If there is a fatal longevity problem or irritating software bug, they have to fix it, or they can't manufacture any more. That is the real review.) I used to subscribe to Consumer Reports, who does seem to do a lot of testing. But they are too far behind and their test coverage was too limited to be useful to me. I wanted to buy a vacuum cleaner, none of the brands they tested were on the radar (it was just stuff you could buy at wal-mart, nothing high quality). Same with flat-screen TVs. And to some extent, you can never know what the reader of your review really wants. If I were buying a TV, I want it to accept HDMI and Displayport and copy the pixels out of the digital stream directly to the display panel. A pixel value of (0, 0, 0) should emit no light. A pixel value of (255, 255, 255) should blind me. When I press the power button, the TV should begin displaying the input signal the instant the button makes a clicking noise. Not 100ms later, not 500ms later, and certainly not 10 seconds later like my Samsung. Such a product does not exist, so there is no product that would ever make me happy or get a 5 star review. After that, it's just a list of compromises you can accept. (Does anyone even make a non-smart TV? I watch TV so infrequently that I have a new firmware update available every time I turn the thing on. It annoys me greatly.)

fortran77 7y ago

If the top 50 or 100 "brands" got together and launched an on-line store where authenticity was guaranteed, and you'd have one place to order and track your orders, they might be able to compete with Amazon, reducing them to just selling cheap knockoffs, etc.

TurkishPoptart 7y ago

I don't like Amazon's return policy. I ordered a mini-fridge that arrived with a huge dent in it (that didn't _seem_ to affect functionality). I would have either had to wait THREE months for a replacement or enjoy a $20 off rebate.

skohan 7y ago
Couldn't you just return it and buy from a different vendor?

skohan 7y ago

I've really come full circle with online retail. I used to go to Amazon because I trusted the consumer experience: I trusted them with my credit card, and I knew I could get a refund if I needed to. But I have so little confidence in what I'm getting from Amazon, that I'm back to going to smaller, more focused online storefronts (camping store for camping stuff, music store for music stuff etc.) because it seems like someone's actually vetting the merchandise. I think it stems from a lack of competition. Since Amazon captures so much of the market, they don't have to be that good anymore.

robotnixon 7y ago

>Repackaging and returning can sometimes be a pain, so I’ll be reluctant to gamble sometimes. However, I’ve been more lazily repacking items and it hasn’t been an issue. Recently they added a return option where you can drop off items at Kohls or a UPS store without repacking them. The store scans a QR code from an email and they handle packing and shipping the item back. Amazon then sends them off in bulk to a processing warehouse. According to my UPS store, most returns aren't even resold on Amazon. They just auction off lots blindly like a storage unit sale.

boring_twenties 7y ago

Repackaging is optional now. A couple of weeks ago I had to return two items and they just emailed me QR codes that I could take to the UPS Store, Whole Foods, or some other nearby business. I just bring the naked item and the QR code, and the store takes care of the rest.

Gibbon1 7y ago

Traditionally companies like Sears, Target and Walmart had buying agents that reviewed products. Imagine man whose job is to review curling irons and blow driers. Those guys acted as gate keepers that determined which products got shelf space. It's harder to game that because if you're a buying agent taking kickbacks you tend to go to jail.