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I fundamentally disagree with the thesis of the "Overcoming Fear and Social Anxiety" page. For example, laugh at a dongle joke in front of a journalist or some

I fundamentally disagree with the thesis of the "Overcoming Fear and Social Anxiety" page. For example, laugh at a dongle joke in front of a journalist or some other influencer who's sneaky with a camera and a million followers, your career is over, if not your life depending on how nuts their followers are. Nearly everyone you meet is out to get you, and a social misstep is a fabulous casus belli. We're all politicians navigating a zero-sum social world, so you have to keep on your utmost guard at all times, attempting to run what you say through what the one who hates you most in the world would think of what you say, before you say it. True Fear is warranted. I'll keep reading through the rest of it, I don't doubt it contains some useful information, and the author of this can write pretty well, so kudos for that.

epidemian 7y ago
I feel much more people are affected by not having enough quantity or quality of social interactions than people being affected by the really bad luck of career-ending dongle jokes mishaps. (I have no strong evidence of this; it's just my general feeling) > Nearly everyone you meet is out to get you [...] > We're all politicians navigating a zero-sum social world [...] These are very pessimistic world views. The social world is definitely not zero-sum. Kindness and empathy are contagious, and so social "value" can definitely be created :) Conversely, selfishness and bitterness can also spread, so value can also be destroyed.
zozbot234 7y ago
> For example, laugh at a dongle joke in front of a journalist or some other influencer who's sneaky with a camera and a million followers, your career is over You should laugh at these people anyway. Appeasement doesn't work, never has - whereas standing up to their abuse and pointing out how foolish they are just might.
- 77pt77 7y ago
  Appeasement doesn't work, but there's definitely a price to pay.
gowld 7y ago
Corrections: In that incident: * the "influencer" was fired from their job because of their public troll behavior * the laugher was not fired (and was publicly supported by their CEO * the joke-teller was fired for something shortly after the incident, but the CEO and the joke-teller won't say exactly what the justificaiton for the firing was. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681
- twoquestions 7y ago
  According to the link: > As a result of the picture she took I was let go from my job today. Which sucks because I have 3 kids and I really liked that job. Did he get his job back? I sure hope so, or a better one.
  - uwuhn 7y ago
    Yes, if you read some of the follow-up pieces (or summaries, one is from a book), the victim mostly got their life back on track. No one knows their name or really remembers anything about them. The aggressor completely derailed both their own personal life and career and AFAIK never fully recovered. Bet they're missing that Twilio money right now. But hey, they got to be internet infamous for a bit.
- SkyBelow 7y ago
  >the joke-teller was fired for something shortly after the incident, but the CEO and the joke-teller won't say exactly what the justificaiton for the firing was Past experience tells me it was most likely because of the event in question and they have their own reasons for not talking (specifically, joke-teller probably doesn't have definite proof and doesn't want another black mark for bad mouthing a previous employer, for which they get no benefit).
jsight 7y ago
> Nearly everyone you meet is out to get you I'm truly sorry that you feel that way. That definitely isn't the case in any general sense, though. Most people are absolutely not out to get anyone.
downerending 7y ago
This is put a bit darkly and being downvoted into the dust, but I think there's a kernel of truth here. Through my career, I've tried hard to be helpful to women and minorities, and never really considered the possible risks. But I also realize that I'm a rather socially awkward person, and whereas in the past a dumb comment might have drawn an eyeroll, these days it could easily be job-ending, and even have permanent consequences to my career. I've noticed that Chinese citizens in my workplace play their cards extremely close to the vest, not discussing non-work issues, and indeed rarely speaking or expressing suggestions at all. I admire them, and this seems like good practice in 2019.
AnimalMuppet 7y ago
If you really think that's true, you shouldn't have posted this. Because, you know, we're all out to get you, and you just gave us ammunition... [Note well: I am saying this to point out that I think that you don't actually operate in agreement with your statement here. I think that's good, because I think that your statement here is mostly wrong and often harmful. I say this because I'm actually trying to help, not because I'm out to get you.]
deleted 7y ago
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epidemian 7y ago

I feel much more people are affected by not having enough quantity or quality of social interactions than people being affected by the really bad luck of career-ending dongle jokes mishaps. (I have no strong evidence of this; it's just my general feeling) > Nearly everyone you meet is out to get you [...] > We're all politicians navigating a zero-sum social world [...] These are very pessimistic world views. The social world is definitely not zero-sum. Kindness and empathy are contagious, and so social "value" can definitely be created :) Conversely, selfishness and bitterness can also spread, so value can also be destroyed.

zozbot234 7y ago

> For example, laugh at a dongle joke in front of a journalist or some other influencer who's sneaky with a camera and a million followers, your career is over You should laugh at these people anyway. Appeasement doesn't work, never has - whereas standing up to their abuse and pointing out how foolish they are just might.

77pt77 7y ago
Appeasement doesn't work, but there's definitely a price to pay.

gowld 7y ago

Corrections: In that incident: * the "influencer" was fired from their job because of their public troll behavior * the laugher was not fired (and was publicly supported by their CEO * the joke-teller was fired for something shortly after the incident, but the CEO and the joke-teller won't say exactly what the justificaiton for the firing was. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681

twoquestions 7y ago
According to the link: > As a result of the picture she took I was let go from my job today. Which sucks because I have 3 kids and I really liked that job. Did he get his job back? I sure hope so, or a better one.
- uwuhn 7y ago
  Yes, if you read some of the follow-up pieces (or summaries, one is from a book), the victim mostly got their life back on track. No one knows their name or really remembers anything about them. The aggressor completely derailed both their own personal life and career and AFAIK never fully recovered. Bet they're missing that Twilio money right now. But hey, they got to be internet infamous for a bit.
SkyBelow 7y ago
>the joke-teller was fired for something shortly after the incident, but the CEO and the joke-teller won't say exactly what the justificaiton for the firing was Past experience tells me it was most likely because of the event in question and they have their own reasons for not talking (specifically, joke-teller probably doesn't have definite proof and doesn't want another black mark for bad mouthing a previous employer, for which they get no benefit).

jsight 7y ago

> Nearly everyone you meet is out to get you I'm truly sorry that you feel that way. That definitely isn't the case in any general sense, though. Most people are absolutely not out to get anyone.

downerending 7y ago

This is put a bit darkly and being downvoted into the dust, but I think there's a kernel of truth here. Through my career, I've tried hard to be helpful to women and minorities, and never really considered the possible risks. But I also realize that I'm a rather socially awkward person, and whereas in the past a dumb comment might have drawn an eyeroll, these days it could easily be job-ending, and even have permanent consequences to my career. I've noticed that Chinese citizens in my workplace play their cards extremely close to the vest, not discussing non-work issues, and indeed rarely speaking or expressing suggestions at all. I admire them, and this seems like good practice in 2019.

AnimalMuppet 7y ago

If you really think that's true, you shouldn't have posted this. Because, you know, we're all out to get you, and you just gave us ammunition... [Note well: I am saying this to point out that I think that you don't actually operate in agreement with your statement here. I think that's good, because I think that your statement here is mostly wrong and often harmful. I say this because I'm actually trying to help, not because I'm out to get you.]

deleted 7y ago

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