5 ms·

> The boat? Not much. It’s the act that offers value. The value of invading another sovereign nation's territory in order to repatriate some hunk object that

> The boat? Not much. It’s the act that offers value. The value of invading another sovereign nation's territory in order to repatriate some hunk object that has purely symbolic value? Hardly seems worth the cost and massive fallout that would ensure.

mc32 7y ago
First it’s not an invasion, it’s an incursion. Like I said upthread, it’s got lots of downside but little upside. But the upside would be quite triumphant.
- chimeracoder 7y ago
  > First it’s not an invasion, it’s an incursion. This is a really weird hair to try to split, given that the two words are essentially synonymous. > When an army crosses a border into another country for battle, they are making an incursion into enemy territory. An incursion is an invasion as well as an attack.[0] > [An incursion is] An aggressive movement into somewhere; an invasion[1] > Invasion is a synonym for incursion in attack topic.[2] ...and so forth. [0] https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/incursion https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/incursion [1] https://wikidiff.com/invasion/incursion https://wikidiff.com/invasion/incursion [2] https://thesaurus.plus/related/incursion/invasion https://thesaurus.plus/related/incursion/invasion
  - mc32 7y ago
    They are not the same. The Russians have incursions into our airspace and we do similarly to them. We don’t call those “invasions”. An invasion is more physical in terms of control. When you invade you’re attempting to control an area with troops some time accompanied by non local pop. An incursion may result in extrication, surveillance or reconnaissance, those sorts of things.
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      > We don’t call those “invasions”. Yes, but that's about politics and emotional connotation, not denotation.
      - mc32 7y ago
        I don’t think so. Someone can accidentally veer into sovereign waters and or air, sometimes land. There is no intention to establish foothold or control. Those are incursions, even when intentional. Invasion is quite involved and usually requires troops to establish foothold and perhaps control over an area. We, the US invaded Grenada, even if it was just momentary. We established control, sent armed troops, etc. Flying reconnaissance over Havana is an incursion but not an invasion.
    - nradov 7y ago
      This is (mostly) false. The US and Russians hardly ever intentionally "incur" into each others' airspace. That basically stopped in the 1960s because the risk is just too high. Even accidental incursions are exceedingly rare now due to better navigational equipment. The US and Russians do legally conduct authorized reconnaissance flights over each other's airspace. This is authorized under the terms of the Open Skies Treaty and is specifically not an incursion. https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/openskies https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/openskies
holtalanm 7y ago
you mean the boat that was illegally seized during the cold war, and still is illegally held?
- yongjik 7y ago
  We're talking about two countries that are still technically at war with each other, at the peak of cold war when such niceties as "legality" didn't stop anyone. "Illegal" is meaningless here.

mc32 7y ago

First it’s not an invasion, it’s an incursion. Like I said upthread, it’s got lots of downside but little upside. But the upside would be quite triumphant.

chimeracoder 7y ago
> First it’s not an invasion, it’s an incursion. This is a really weird hair to try to split, given that the two words are essentially synonymous. > When an army crosses a border into another country for battle, they are making an incursion into enemy territory. An incursion is an invasion as well as an attack.[0] > [An incursion is] An aggressive movement into somewhere; an invasion[1] > Invasion is a synonym for incursion in attack topic.[2] ...and so forth. [0] https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/incursion https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/incursion [1] https://wikidiff.com/invasion/incursion https://wikidiff.com/invasion/incursion [2] https://thesaurus.plus/related/incursion/invasion https://thesaurus.plus/related/incursion/invasion
- mc32 7y ago
  They are not the same. The Russians have incursions into our airspace and we do similarly to them. We don’t call those “invasions”. An invasion is more physical in terms of control. When you invade you’re attempting to control an area with troops some time accompanied by non local pop. An incursion may result in extrication, surveillance or reconnaissance, those sorts of things.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    > We don’t call those “invasions”. Yes, but that's about politics and emotional connotation, not denotation.
    - mc32 7y ago
      I don’t think so. Someone can accidentally veer into sovereign waters and or air, sometimes land. There is no intention to establish foothold or control. Those are incursions, even when intentional. Invasion is quite involved and usually requires troops to establish foothold and perhaps control over an area. We, the US invaded Grenada, even if it was just momentary. We established control, sent armed troops, etc. Flying reconnaissance over Havana is an incursion but not an invasion.
  - nradov 7y ago
    This is (mostly) false. The US and Russians hardly ever intentionally "incur" into each others' airspace. That basically stopped in the 1960s because the risk is just too high. Even accidental incursions are exceedingly rare now due to better navigational equipment. The US and Russians do legally conduct authorized reconnaissance flights over each other's airspace. This is authorized under the terms of the Open Skies Treaty and is specifically not an incursion. https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/openskies https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/openskies

holtalanm 7y ago

you mean the boat that was illegally seized during the cold war, and still is illegally held?

yongjik 7y ago
We're talking about two countries that are still technically at war with each other, at the peak of cold war when such niceties as "legality" didn't stop anyone. "Illegal" is meaningless here.