8 ms·

FYI, the full interview is available here https://alanmooreworld.blogspot.com/2019/11/moore-on-jerusalem-eternalism-anarchy.html https://alanmooreworld.blogspot

FYI, the full interview is available here https://alanmooreworld.blogspot.com/2019/11/moore-on-jerusalem-eternalism-anarchy.html https://alanmooreworld.blogspot.com/2019/11/moore-on-jerusal... EDIT: The relevant quote (although the whole interview is pretty interesting): "I think the impact of superheroes on popular culture is both tremendously embarrassing and not a little worrying. While these characters were originally perfectly suited to stimulating the imaginations of their twelve or thirteen year-old audience, today’s franchised übermenschen, aimed at a supposedly adult audience, seem to be serving some kind of different function, and fulfilling different needs. Primarily, mass-market superhero movies seem to be abetting an audience who do not wish to relinquish their grip on (a) their relatively reassuring childhoods, or (b) the relatively reassuring 20th century. The continuing popularity of these movies to me suggests some kind of deliberate, self-imposed state of emotional arrest, combined with an numbing condition of cultural stasis that can be witnessed in comics, movies, popular music and, indeed, right across the cultural spectrum. The superheroes themselves – largely written and drawn by creators who have never stood up for their own rights against the companies that employ them, much less the rights of a Jack Kirby or Jerry Siegel or Joe Schuster – would seem to be largely employed as cowardice compensators, perhaps a bit like the handgun on the nightstand. I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks."

malvosenior 7y ago
This is probably the most astute comment on the current media landscape I've ever seen. Just as Moore says, much of our world is trapped in the 20th century. The media, the philosophy, the people in charge... I once read Baby Boomer culture described as an ugly toad squatting on the rest of society, holding it back. The truth turned out to be a bit different though. Even the younger generations still willingly embrace 20th century life (probably more than they realize). I think social media will finally tip things over into a new era though. The narcissism that is its core feature is also an outgrowth of 20th century individualism and a quest for self actualization. Pushed to its limits, it destroys its participants and society at large. For anyone interested in these topics, I highly recommend The Century Of The Self. It talks about the intersection of psychology, marketing, technology and the generation that grew up with them in the 20th century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self
- jstewartmobile 7y ago
  sounds like a film version of Christopher Lasch
- ecf 7y ago
  I feel it’s a chicken - egg problem. Are we embracing 20th century life by clinging on to old movie IPs, or are we just constantly being fed the same type of stuff by Studios who’ve found “their formula” for making content with a low risk of flopping, for example.
  - schwartzworld 7y ago
    Por que no los dos?
    - bdamm 7y ago
      Indeed, I am patronizing the indie cinema much more these days. Mainly, because they have actually interesting movies, unlike the bland drivel that being spooned out of Hollywood.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    We're embracing a subset of 20th century themes. Star Trek: The Next Generation was a very popular XX century series, and yet after it, never again[0] did sci-fi embraced the themes like optimism about the future, exploration, diplomacy, a society as a protagonist just as important as the heroes, etc. I'm saddened about it (and about post-ENT Star Trek reboots). I want my TNG back, and I'm not ashamed of clinging to it. -- [0] - With the possible exception of Disney's Tommorowland, and of course DS9, VOY and ENT Star Trek series from the same universe as TNG.
    - dublinben 7y ago
      The very popular Culture series by Iain M. Banks offers a very optimistic vision of the future.
tompccs 7y ago
Great quote. I'd add to that (or perhaps supplant) Tom Holland's observation that our collective cultural points of reference are all steeped in christianity, even when not explicity christian. The superhero trope has strong overtones of christian morality and usually follows the new testament surprisingly closely: man, from humble origins, is bestowed supernatural powers, performs miracles, struggles with his own nature, saves humanity, etc..
- Barrin92 7y ago
  What made me realise this too was seeing Endgame. Thanos with his population control, cosmic agenda could have been satire from an angry christian conservative who wanted to rant about climate change liberals and the club of rome or something. It's really funny if you pay attention to villains in super-hero movies how often they're foreign or alien in origin with some environmental or grand agenda. Ra's al ghul is no different, and Bane of course who in Nolan's movie is the villian for bringing wall street down. It's funny how loved these movies are usually by stereotypically 'woke' audiences when the moral of the story so often seems like something that could have come straight out of the 1950s.
  - flir 7y ago
    Not just superheroes. Middle-Eastern/Russian/British bad guys are de rigeur in action movies. Been a long time since I've seen a Chinese bad guy in an action movie. Funny, that.
- lm28469 7y ago
  > man, from humble origins, is bestowed supernatural powers, performs miracles, struggles with his own nature, saves humanity, etc.. That's very common even outside of Christianity, greek/egyptian/nordic myths. It's more of a "human" thing than a "christian" thing.
  - Vysero 7y ago
    Agreed
- 7y ago
CharlesColeman 7y ago
> In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks." And ironically a superhero radio serial helped seriously weaken the KKK in the 40s: https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/23157/how-superman-defeated-ku-klux-klan https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/23157/how-superman-defea... I heard elsewhere that, after the program aired, the children of KKK members were angry when they found their children playing "Superman vs. the Klan" and understanding the Klan to be the enemy. I'm not defending the superhero genre targeted at adult audiences, and I think the movies tend to be boring and unimaginative.
aisofteng 7y ago
This is in line with some observations I’ve made. If you notice, decades ago, superheroes were imbued with some sort of power and then study it and train diligently, eventually mastering it. The majority now, however, are suddenly thrown into a confusing and frightening world, eventually asserting themselves. I wonder whether that trend reflects our trends in psychological states or simply on our seemingly more complex, information overloaded world.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
moomin 7y ago
Arguably, he made these points better in... Watchmen. And the last point seems to be being made quite ably by Lindelof in... Watchmen.
- colanderman 7y ago
  Beside the HBO adaptation of Watchmen, I'm also watching the Amazon adaptation of The Boys right now. It addresses the übermensch-worship-culture even more directly. Highly recommended (though not as highly as Watchmen).
  - Forge36 7y ago
    "The Boys" even hits this directly: (not a direct quote as I go from memory) "The people like feeling safe, they don't want to know what problems sups are causing. They prefer ignorance.)"
    - ousta 7y ago
      the show tune it down hugely compared to the comic because of exactly what moore says. PC culture.
threatofrain 7y ago
This is why I have my own idiosyncratic notion of how HN is very, very conservative. The artistic taste, the aesthetics of personal tech blogs, even the aesthetic of this website itself. It's hyper-functionalist. It's all-about-the-business. Don't forget those with perceptual access needs. And the colors, styles, and general artistic output of web media has been... all-about-the-business. Gone is the spirit of the Flash era. Tech is so business business business.
- tempguy9999 7y ago
  Is that a criticism? Because if it wasn't the tone of your last line I'd take it as a compliment to the site. What would the value being non-hyper-functionalist, or to ignore access needs of some people? Are you trolling?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- faissaloo 7y ago
  Agreed, and in doing this we've robbed ourselves of what makes us human. We have built machines and now we seek to emulate them, see how in games like System Shock the evil AI is referred to by terms like 'perfect' or how its often said that 'robots don't make mistakes'.
- marcosdumay 7y ago
  Hum... HN is minimalist. It has a large share of web site makers in its users, and the one esthetic strategy that makers can always agree on is minimalism. The web in general is hyperoptimized. Sites that do not fit all the requirements for showing on Google searches do not get visitors, and do not count over the overall web esthetic. If you look deeper, it's easy to notice that the all-about-business of the web is very different from the all-about-the-business of HN.
C1sc0cat 7y ago
So as a thought experiment what dos that make the Iliad, Homer, Aeschylus, Sophocles Euripides all of which use Gods and Super hero's And don't forget that a lot of what is now considered cannon was considered trashy and Dickens that "penny a word hack" even worse.
- armitron 7y ago
  Let me ask if you've read Homer, Aeschylus and the rest of the classics, because assuming that is the case, you really should know the answer to your question. All the classic writers fundamentally write about the human condition. They are not concerned with anything other than that. They are masterpieces that capture essential truths and have the power to transform human thought and civilization. Which is whey their works have endured the test of time for thousands of years. Compared to the classics, modern superhero films are garbage. They are focus-grouped, market-tested, mass-produced filth aimed at "everybody" (a close approximation of Nietzsche's "last man" [1]) They possess no intelligence, do not want to make you think, rattle no cages and aim at nothing but pandering and exploitation. Do you see the difference? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man
  - blacksmith_tb 7y ago
    Not to offer a defense of Hollywood's throwaways, but I would say that enduring classics like The Illiad or The Bhagavad Gita were intended to reinforce the cultural norms of their times, which of course is an aspect of the human condition, but not about "making you think" in any sort of critical way. In that sense superhero movies are not so far afield...
    - watwut 7y ago
      I would argue that Homer is more nuanced then Hollywood by a lot. And the Illiad does not make you feel so good about violence as Hollywood war movies either. When it comes to "making you think", they are miles better. I am not saying there is no other art (movie/literatture) that makes you think more then these. But like, superheroes and hollywood are not that.
luckydata 7y ago
I understand the point of the quote but I don't agree. I don't think it's worrying that millions of people enjoy escapist movies, we used to have Die Hard and whatever Arnold and Nick Cage were in, now we have superheroes. What's worrying is that the movie landscape has been hollowed out and NOTHING ELSE is available, so different kind of stories are not financed and promoted anymore (at least with the same energy as in the 90s). Netflix, HBO and the other streaming services are filling the void but artistically we definitely have gone back a bit.
john-radio 7y ago
The BBC writer really seems to want the conversation to remain focused on the slightly childish topic of "Are superheroes GOOD or BAD?", and avoid discussing the larger issues of human dignity and worker's rights that Alan Moore raised, by changing the subject one paragraph later to Martin Scorsese also saying that superhero movies are BAD or at least not film. Like, what? We are not really talking only about superheroes, here.
wanderer2323 7y ago
Yes, the superhero culture was definitely much better before, in the olden days when Greed was abhorred, it was taboo to snatch Radish tops, aniseed, or parsley before your elders, Or to nibble kickshaws and giggle and twine one's feet.
mindgam3 7y ago
This commentary gets the psychology of superhero narratives entirely wrong: > Primarily, mass-market superhero movies seem to be abetting an audience who do not wish to relinquish their grip on (a) their relatively reassuring childhoods It’s the exact opposite. Superhero movies speak most strongly to those whose childhoods were traumatizing. The misfits, the rejects, the nerds who were bullied and had no protector. These narratives are about downtrodden heroes discovering their inner strength and standing up to evil and abuse. Look at the archetype of the mild mannered geeky protagonist who hides his incredible abilities - Spider-Man, Superman with his Clark Kent glasses and persona. The reason these movies are resonating so deeply in this cultural moment is we have an entire generation of traumatized kids, now adults, who are searching for stories to help them make sense of their reality. This is directly linked to the rise of so-called mental illness, aka trauma. I’m not saying that all of these mass produced movies are works of art, but you need to understand where the appetite is coming from. The root is in collective trauma. The only connection to DW Griffit’s racist film is surface level - literally just the fact that masks and capes are involved. Pointing to that film as a forerunner of superhero movies is frankly absurd.
- rchaud 7y ago
  I can accept that that's part of the reason. Back in the day bullied kids watched Karate Kid to watch the underdog emerge victorious against all odds. But even the most die hard fan will tell you that Karate Kid 3 did not need to be made, it was a cheap cash-in on a successful franchise. What explains the desire to make a mini-series or spinoff franchise about every single character, if not the desire to cash in? A couple of years ago Netflix had Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and Luke Cage as standalone shows, and The Defenders as its own show. The Defenders had the exact same cast playing the same characters as on the standalone shows. What is the point of that? Certainly not to put traumatized adults at ease I imagine.
  - mindgam3 7y ago
    I’m not arguing about the motives of the big studios cashing in with superhero franchises. Merely pointing out that the root cause of the demand they’re tapping into is the exact opposite of what the parent comment claims i.e. childhood insecurity not security.
_hardwaregeek 7y ago
Adding on to Moore's point about superheros and clinging to childhood, the director Pedro Almodovar makes an interesting observation^[1] that the Marvel movies are neutered and almost sexless. All of the relationships shown in the films are practically chaste. The characters who display sexuality are considered immature (Tony Stark in Iron Man, Peter Quill in Guardians of the Galaxy), until they "graduate" to a relationship that immediately removes any trace of sexuality from their being. [1]: https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/pedro-almodovar-wants-sexier-marvel-movies-and-superhero-films-they-are-neutered-1202129903/ https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/pedro-almodovar-wants-sexi...
- kimjongtrill 7y ago
  i mean do we need to sex everything up so much? i am down for this is we are going to put up some realistic sexy stuff but i am also fine with comic movies not focusing on it.
- watwut 7y ago
  Given that pretty much anything I had seen lately had sex in it, I really don't think superheroes movies need to have sex too. It is ok to not include it. And also, part of audience are children. Plus it is not like sex on screen in movies was typically an adult realistic depiction of how relationships go. So it is double fine.
  - Jamwinner 7y ago
    Even kids shows feature romances. Have you not experienced love or attraction as a major motivator in your personal life, even as a child?
    - watwut 7y ago
      You jumped from "neutered and almost sexless" to romance which is something different, especially when considering kids potentially watching movie (sex gives you higher rating). And no, sexual attraction was not motivator majority of the time, definitely not as a child. Speaking of romance, I dont need romance in the movies. Not every movie needs it. Most relationships in real life are not romantic, most cooperating groups of people dont actually have couple in them. Repetitive same-stupid-hero-falls-in-love with girl that is there to be fallen in love with plus some excuse is worst then no romance.
wtetzner 7y ago
I wonder if there's a simpler answer, which is that we finally have the tech to do the special effects, and seeing all of these characters come to life is entertaining. How many people are really enamored with the idea of super heroes, as opposed to just enjoying the spectacle of it?
Vysero 7y ago
"The writer claims adults enjoy superhero films because they don't wish to leave their "relatively reassuring childhoods" behind, or move into the 21st century." What justification does he have to make this claim? Perhaps he thinks adults are taking these movies seriously? These movies have had about as much impact on my life as some of the stains on my carpet. I watch them for the same reason I eat cotton candy when I go to the fair.. "I think the impact of superheroes on popular culture is both tremendously embarrassing and not a little worrying," Again, what impact?
Reedx 7y ago
I think this is part of it, but also suspect that the rise of tribalism and polarization is playing a role. There's little desire for nuance when in this mode. Our side is good, the other side is evil. With us or against us. Superhero movies tend to embody this simplistic view of a complicated world. We're the good side and we destroy the enemy who is irredeemable. Fin.
- goatlover 7y ago
  They do. It would have been more interesting in the Captain Marvel move if the Kree and Skrull both had legitimate claims while also being at fault, instead of just one side being the bad guys, so that Carol could easily pivot to the good side once she bacame aware. And then put Earth in the middle of a morally complex predicament, giving the hero a truly difficult decision to make. Even Thanos with his environmental message just ending up being treated as another villain to be defeated in Endgame.
stjohnswarts 7y ago
This is the same line of thinking that people use to want to regulate music, video, video games, and everything else. They are entertainment and nothing more. They're basically the same as ballads and stories told round the campfire. Alan More is off his rocker.

malvosenior 7y ago

This is probably the most astute comment on the current media landscape I've ever seen. Just as Moore says, much of our world is trapped in the 20th century. The media, the philosophy, the people in charge... I once read Baby Boomer culture described as an ugly toad squatting on the rest of society, holding it back. The truth turned out to be a bit different though. Even the younger generations still willingly embrace 20th century life (probably more than they realize). I think social media will finally tip things over into a new era though. The narcissism that is its core feature is also an outgrowth of 20th century individualism and a quest for self actualization. Pushed to its limits, it destroys its participants and society at large. For anyone interested in these topics, I highly recommend The Century Of The Self. It talks about the intersection of psychology, marketing, technology and the generation that grew up with them in the 20th century. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Century_of_the_Self

jstewartmobile 7y ago
sounds like a film version of Christopher Lasch
ecf 7y ago
I feel it’s a chicken - egg problem. Are we embracing 20th century life by clinging on to old movie IPs, or are we just constantly being fed the same type of stuff by Studios who’ve found “their formula” for making content with a low risk of flopping, for example.
- schwartzworld 7y ago
  Por que no los dos?
  - bdamm 7y ago
    Indeed, I am patronizing the indie cinema much more these days. Mainly, because they have actually interesting movies, unlike the bland drivel that being spooned out of Hollywood.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  We're embracing a subset of 20th century themes. Star Trek: The Next Generation was a very popular XX century series, and yet after it, never again[0] did sci-fi embraced the themes like optimism about the future, exploration, diplomacy, a society as a protagonist just as important as the heroes, etc. I'm saddened about it (and about post-ENT Star Trek reboots). I want my TNG back, and I'm not ashamed of clinging to it. -- [0] - With the possible exception of Disney's Tommorowland, and of course DS9, VOY and ENT Star Trek series from the same universe as TNG.
  - dublinben 7y ago
    The very popular Culture series by Iain M. Banks offers a very optimistic vision of the future.

tompccs 7y ago

Great quote. I'd add to that (or perhaps supplant) Tom Holland's observation that our collective cultural points of reference are all steeped in christianity, even when not explicity christian. The superhero trope has strong overtones of christian morality and usually follows the new testament surprisingly closely: man, from humble origins, is bestowed supernatural powers, performs miracles, struggles with his own nature, saves humanity, etc..

Barrin92 7y ago
What made me realise this too was seeing Endgame. Thanos with his population control, cosmic agenda could have been satire from an angry christian conservative who wanted to rant about climate change liberals and the club of rome or something. It's really funny if you pay attention to villains in super-hero movies how often they're foreign or alien in origin with some environmental or grand agenda. Ra's al ghul is no different, and Bane of course who in Nolan's movie is the villian for bringing wall street down. It's funny how loved these movies are usually by stereotypically 'woke' audiences when the moral of the story so often seems like something that could have come straight out of the 1950s.
- flir 7y ago
  Not just superheroes. Middle-Eastern/Russian/British bad guys are de rigeur in action movies. Been a long time since I've seen a Chinese bad guy in an action movie. Funny, that.
lm28469 7y ago
> man, from humble origins, is bestowed supernatural powers, performs miracles, struggles with his own nature, saves humanity, etc.. That's very common even outside of Christianity, greek/egyptian/nordic myths. It's more of a "human" thing than a "christian" thing.
- Vysero 7y ago
  Agreed
7y ago

CharlesColeman 7y ago

> In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks." And ironically a superhero radio serial helped seriously weaken the KKK in the 40s: https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/23157/how-superman-defeated-ku-klux-klan https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/23157/how-superman-defea... I heard elsewhere that, after the program aired, the children of KKK members were angry when they found their children playing "Superman vs. the Klan" and understanding the Klan to be the enemy. I'm not defending the superhero genre targeted at adult audiences, and I think the movies tend to be boring and unimaginative.

aisofteng 7y ago

This is in line with some observations I’ve made. If you notice, decades ago, superheroes were imbued with some sort of power and then study it and train diligently, eventually mastering it. The majority now, however, are suddenly thrown into a confusing and frightening world, eventually asserting themselves. I wonder whether that trend reflects our trends in psychological states or simply on our seemingly more complex, information overloaded world.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

moomin 7y ago

Arguably, he made these points better in... Watchmen. And the last point seems to be being made quite ably by Lindelof in... Watchmen.

colanderman 7y ago
Beside the HBO adaptation of Watchmen, I'm also watching the Amazon adaptation of The Boys right now. It addresses the übermensch-worship-culture even more directly. Highly recommended (though not as highly as Watchmen).
- Forge36 7y ago
  "The Boys" even hits this directly: (not a direct quote as I go from memory) "The people like feeling safe, they don't want to know what problems sups are causing. They prefer ignorance.)"
  - ousta 7y ago
    the show tune it down hugely compared to the comic because of exactly what moore says. PC culture.

threatofrain 7y ago

This is why I have my own idiosyncratic notion of how HN is very, very conservative. The artistic taste, the aesthetics of personal tech blogs, even the aesthetic of this website itself. It's hyper-functionalist. It's all-about-the-business. Don't forget those with perceptual access needs. And the colors, styles, and general artistic output of web media has been... all-about-the-business. Gone is the spirit of the Flash era. Tech is so business business business.

tempguy9999 7y ago
Is that a criticism? Because if it wasn't the tone of your last line I'd take it as a compliment to the site. What would the value being non-hyper-functionalist, or to ignore access needs of some people? Are you trolling?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
faissaloo 7y ago
Agreed, and in doing this we've robbed ourselves of what makes us human. We have built machines and now we seek to emulate them, see how in games like System Shock the evil AI is referred to by terms like 'perfect' or how its often said that 'robots don't make mistakes'.
marcosdumay 7y ago
Hum... HN is minimalist. It has a large share of web site makers in its users, and the one esthetic strategy that makers can always agree on is minimalism. The web in general is hyperoptimized. Sites that do not fit all the requirements for showing on Google searches do not get visitors, and do not count over the overall web esthetic. If you look deeper, it's easy to notice that the all-about-business of the web is very different from the all-about-the-business of HN.

C1sc0cat 7y ago

So as a thought experiment what dos that make the Iliad, Homer, Aeschylus, Sophocles Euripides all of which use Gods and Super hero's And don't forget that a lot of what is now considered cannon was considered trashy and Dickens that "penny a word hack" even worse.

armitron 7y ago
Let me ask if you've read Homer, Aeschylus and the rest of the classics, because assuming that is the case, you really should know the answer to your question. All the classic writers fundamentally write about the human condition. They are not concerned with anything other than that. They are masterpieces that capture essential truths and have the power to transform human thought and civilization. Which is whey their works have endured the test of time for thousands of years. Compared to the classics, modern superhero films are garbage. They are focus-grouped, market-tested, mass-produced filth aimed at "everybody" (a close approximation of Nietzsche's "last man" [1]) They possess no intelligence, do not want to make you think, rattle no cages and aim at nothing but pandering and exploitation. Do you see the difference? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man
- blacksmith_tb 7y ago
  Not to offer a defense of Hollywood's throwaways, but I would say that enduring classics like The Illiad or The Bhagavad Gita were intended to reinforce the cultural norms of their times, which of course is an aspect of the human condition, but not about "making you think" in any sort of critical way. In that sense superhero movies are not so far afield...
  - watwut 7y ago
    I would argue that Homer is more nuanced then Hollywood by a lot. And the Illiad does not make you feel so good about violence as Hollywood war movies either. When it comes to "making you think", they are miles better. I am not saying there is no other art (movie/literatture) that makes you think more then these. But like, superheroes and hollywood are not that.

luckydata 7y ago

I understand the point of the quote but I don't agree. I don't think it's worrying that millions of people enjoy escapist movies, we used to have Die Hard and whatever Arnold and Nick Cage were in, now we have superheroes. What's worrying is that the movie landscape has been hollowed out and NOTHING ELSE is available, so different kind of stories are not financed and promoted anymore (at least with the same energy as in the 90s). Netflix, HBO and the other streaming services are filling the void but artistically we definitely have gone back a bit.

john-radio 7y ago

The BBC writer really seems to want the conversation to remain focused on the slightly childish topic of "Are superheroes GOOD or BAD?", and avoid discussing the larger issues of human dignity and worker's rights that Alan Moore raised, by changing the subject one paragraph later to Martin Scorsese also saying that superhero movies are BAD or at least not film. Like, what? We are not really talking only about superheroes, here.

wanderer2323 7y ago

Yes, the superhero culture was definitely much better before, in the olden days when Greed was abhorred, it was taboo to snatch Radish tops, aniseed, or parsley before your elders, Or to nibble kickshaws and giggle and twine one's feet.

mindgam3 7y ago

This commentary gets the psychology of superhero narratives entirely wrong: > Primarily, mass-market superhero movies seem to be abetting an audience who do not wish to relinquish their grip on (a) their relatively reassuring childhoods It’s the exact opposite. Superhero movies speak most strongly to those whose childhoods were traumatizing. The misfits, the rejects, the nerds who were bullied and had no protector. These narratives are about downtrodden heroes discovering their inner strength and standing up to evil and abuse. Look at the archetype of the mild mannered geeky protagonist who hides his incredible abilities - Spider-Man, Superman with his Clark Kent glasses and persona. The reason these movies are resonating so deeply in this cultural moment is we have an entire generation of traumatized kids, now adults, who are searching for stories to help them make sense of their reality. This is directly linked to the rise of so-called mental illness, aka trauma. I’m not saying that all of these mass produced movies are works of art, but you need to understand where the appetite is coming from. The root is in collective trauma. The only connection to DW Griffit’s racist film is surface level - literally just the fact that masks and capes are involved. Pointing to that film as a forerunner of superhero movies is frankly absurd.

rchaud 7y ago
I can accept that that's part of the reason. Back in the day bullied kids watched Karate Kid to watch the underdog emerge victorious against all odds. But even the most die hard fan will tell you that Karate Kid 3 did not need to be made, it was a cheap cash-in on a successful franchise. What explains the desire to make a mini-series or spinoff franchise about every single character, if not the desire to cash in? A couple of years ago Netflix had Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and Luke Cage as standalone shows, and The Defenders as its own show. The Defenders had the exact same cast playing the same characters as on the standalone shows. What is the point of that? Certainly not to put traumatized adults at ease I imagine.
- mindgam3 7y ago
  I’m not arguing about the motives of the big studios cashing in with superhero franchises. Merely pointing out that the root cause of the demand they’re tapping into is the exact opposite of what the parent comment claims i.e. childhood insecurity not security.

_hardwaregeek 7y ago

Adding on to Moore's point about superheros and clinging to childhood, the director Pedro Almodovar makes an interesting observation^[1] that the Marvel movies are neutered and almost sexless. All of the relationships shown in the films are practically chaste. The characters who display sexuality are considered immature (Tony Stark in Iron Man, Peter Quill in Guardians of the Galaxy), until they "graduate" to a relationship that immediately removes any trace of sexuality from their being. [1]: https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/pedro-almodovar-wants-sexier-marvel-movies-and-superhero-films-they-are-neutered-1202129903/ https://www.indiewire.com/2019/04/pedro-almodovar-wants-sexi...

kimjongtrill 7y ago
i mean do we need to sex everything up so much? i am down for this is we are going to put up some realistic sexy stuff but i am also fine with comic movies not focusing on it.
watwut 7y ago
Given that pretty much anything I had seen lately had sex in it, I really don't think superheroes movies need to have sex too. It is ok to not include it. And also, part of audience are children. Plus it is not like sex on screen in movies was typically an adult realistic depiction of how relationships go. So it is double fine.
- Jamwinner 7y ago
  Even kids shows feature romances. Have you not experienced love or attraction as a major motivator in your personal life, even as a child?
  - watwut 7y ago
    You jumped from "neutered and almost sexless" to romance which is something different, especially when considering kids potentially watching movie (sex gives you higher rating). And no, sexual attraction was not motivator majority of the time, definitely not as a child. Speaking of romance, I dont need romance in the movies. Not every movie needs it. Most relationships in real life are not romantic, most cooperating groups of people dont actually have couple in them. Repetitive same-stupid-hero-falls-in-love with girl that is there to be fallen in love with plus some excuse is worst then no romance.

wtetzner 7y ago

I wonder if there's a simpler answer, which is that we finally have the tech to do the special effects, and seeing all of these characters come to life is entertaining. How many people are really enamored with the idea of super heroes, as opposed to just enjoying the spectacle of it?

Vysero 7y ago

"The writer claims adults enjoy superhero films because they don't wish to leave their "relatively reassuring childhoods" behind, or move into the 21st century." What justification does he have to make this claim? Perhaps he thinks adults are taking these movies seriously? These movies have had about as much impact on my life as some of the stains on my carpet. I watch them for the same reason I eat cotton candy when I go to the fair.. "I think the impact of superheroes on popular culture is both tremendously embarrassing and not a little worrying," Again, what impact?

Reedx 7y ago

I think this is part of it, but also suspect that the rise of tribalism and polarization is playing a role. There's little desire for nuance when in this mode. Our side is good, the other side is evil. With us or against us. Superhero movies tend to embody this simplistic view of a complicated world. We're the good side and we destroy the enemy who is irredeemable. Fin.

goatlover 7y ago
They do. It would have been more interesting in the Captain Marvel move if the Kree and Skrull both had legitimate claims while also being at fault, instead of just one side being the bad guys, so that Carol could easily pivot to the good side once she bacame aware. And then put Earth in the middle of a morally complex predicament, giving the hero a truly difficult decision to make. Even Thanos with his environmental message just ending up being treated as another villain to be defeated in Endgame.

stjohnswarts 7y ago

This is the same line of thinking that people use to want to regulate music, video, video games, and everything else. They are entertainment and nothing more. They're basically the same as ballads and stories told round the campfire. Alan More is off his rocker.