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By the way, Chelsea Manning (the actual leaker) has been in jail for just over 6 months - again - for refusing to testify in the Assange extradition case. If y

by geofft 7y ago

By the way, Chelsea Manning (the actual leaker) has been in jail for just over 6 months - again - for refusing to testify in the Assange extradition case. If you're so inclined, send something to her legal defense fund: https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/chelsea-manning-needs-legal-funds-to-resist-a-grand-jury-subpoena https://actionnetwork.org/fundraising/chelsea-manning-needs-...

Bostonian 7y ago
Chelsea Manning was sentenced to 35 years, but her sentence was commuted by Obama in part because she was transgender. She deserves to be in prison. https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/chelsea-manning-sentence-commuted/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/chelsea-manning-sent... President Barack Obama on Tuesday overruled his secretary of defense to commute the sentence of former Army soldier Chelsea Manning, who was convicted of stealing and disseminating 750,000 pages of documents and videos to WikiLeaks. The decision -- which a senior defense official told CNN was made over the objections of Secretary of Defense Ash Carter -- immediately touched off a controversy in the closing days of the Obama administration. A former intelligence official described being "shocked" to learn of Obama's decision, adding that the "entire intelligence community is deflated by this inexplicable use of executive power." The official said the move was "deeply hypocritical given Obama's denunciation of WikiLeaks' role in the hacking of the (Democratic National Committee)."
- femiagbabiaka 7y ago
  Whistleblowers do not deserve to be in prison. Exposing war crimes is good.
  - kpU8efre7r 7y ago
    Manning should have used whistleblower channels then. They did not because Manning is not a whistleblower.
  - mariorossi666 7y ago
    She wasn't technically a whistleblower, technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect. The military have a different way of dealing with justice, especially in U.S. She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court.
    - ComodoHacker 7y ago
      >betrayed her country that she swore to protect Hasn't she in fact protected her country from commiting further war crimes?
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        Has she? https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/15/america-is-committing-awful-war-crimes-and-it-doesnt-even-know-why/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/15/america-is-committing-a...
    - dependenttypes 7y ago
      > She wasn't technically a whistleblower How so? > technically she stole classified documents You can't steal online data. You can only copy it. > betrayed her country that she swore to protect Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the people. This sounds like a very honourable (and whistleblow-y) thing to do. > She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court. Which is an extremely corrupt move.
      - mariorossi666 7y ago
        > You can't steal online data. You can only copy it that's stealing a document in anyone's book. > Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the peopl You're arguing with me, but I agree with you, I'm simply saying that a military court said that. That's why I said technically. The law is all about technicalities. Manning wore a uniform, she was subject to court-martial, and court-martial ruled against her. I'm just reporting it. > Which is an extremely corrupt move. Which is what happens when you're in the armed forces and have to deal with justice. It's the same for everyone who joins the military. She wasn't treated in a special way.
  - shadowgovt 7y ago
    Whistleblowing is a focused revelation of wrongdoing. Scraping the secret-classified documents of the State Department, handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing. At best, it's irresponsible; at worst, it's irresponsibility that walks right up to the edge of malicious treason. I'm very glad Manning wasn't convicted of treason, because she got dangerously close to it (apparently, her crimes are treason-equivalent in Canada).
    - colejohnson66 7y ago
      > handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing. So Snowden isn’t a whistleblower because he gave them to the Guardian?
      - shadowgovt 7y ago
        There are two answers to that: technical (legal) and moral. Technical (legal): No, clearly not. There's a reason he's hiding from the US justice system in Russia. He didn't follow the legal process for whistleblowing (and he probably should not have). Moral: The major difference between Manning and Snowden's leaks is that Snowden read the documents he forwarded and only collected and forwarded enough to blow the whistle. Manning never read all the cables she extracted; she had no idea what the blast-radius of that declassification would be.
        monocasa 7y ago
        As a contractor, there was no legal whistleblower process for him to follow. He did escalate internally as much as he could before the leaks though. Snowden also took a lot and leaked a massive dump, it was Greenwald, et al. that parred it down.
        jcranberry 7y ago
        Snowden took and gave much more than he could possibly have read. In July 2014, The Washington Post reported on a cache previously provided by Snowden from domestic NSA operations consisting of "roughly 160,000 intercepted e-mail and instant-message conversations, some of them hundreds of pages long, and 7,900 documents taken from more than 11,000 online accounts." He did not read the 160k emails he provided to the Washington Post.
- dependenttypes 7y ago
  > the "entire intelligence community is deflated Anything that makes the intelligence community deflated is a good thing.
  - mariorossi666 7y ago
    Unless it means that those attacks that the intelligence community prevented will take place.
    - voxic11 7y ago
      Maybe it will prevent some of those attacks that the intelligence community precipitated. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones/u-s-drone-strike-kills-30-pine-nut-farm-workers-in-afghanistan-idUSKBN1W40NW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones...
      - dependenttypes 7y ago
        This is exactly how terrorists are created. Some poor farmer is going to care more about feeding his family than commit suicide missions. People who lost their whole family from an American drone attack however...
        mariorossi666 7y ago
        > . People who lost their whole family from an American drone attack however... Will continue to care about more about feeding their family. There is no connection between being victim and becoming a terrorist or we in Italy should be all terrorists, because in the 70s a lot of people have been killed by state terrorists. Lookup Giorgiana Masi, for example, or Stefano Cucchi. Their families didn't kill anybody. They just asked for justice.
        monocasa 7y ago
        What's the pathway to justice for an Afghan family whose children were killed by a drone strike?
- raxxorrax 7y ago
  That casts a large shadow on the intelligence community if true.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

by geofft 7y ago

Bostonian 7y ago

Chelsea Manning was sentenced to 35 years, but her sentence was commuted by Obama in part because she was transgender. She deserves to be in prison. https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/chelsea-manning-sentence-commuted/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/17/politics/chelsea-manning-sent... President Barack Obama on Tuesday overruled his secretary of defense to commute the sentence of former Army soldier Chelsea Manning, who was convicted of stealing and disseminating 750,000 pages of documents and videos to WikiLeaks. The decision -- which a senior defense official told CNN was made over the objections of Secretary of Defense Ash Carter -- immediately touched off a controversy in the closing days of the Obama administration. A former intelligence official described being "shocked" to learn of Obama's decision, adding that the "entire intelligence community is deflated by this inexplicable use of executive power." The official said the move was "deeply hypocritical given Obama's denunciation of WikiLeaks' role in the hacking of the (Democratic National Committee)."

femiagbabiaka 7y ago
Whistleblowers do not deserve to be in prison. Exposing war crimes is good.
- kpU8efre7r 7y ago
  Manning should have used whistleblower channels then. They did not because Manning is not a whistleblower.
- mariorossi666 7y ago
  She wasn't technically a whistleblower, technically she stole classified documents and betrayed her country that she swore to protect. The military have a different way of dealing with justice, especially in U.S. She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court.
  - ComodoHacker 7y ago
    >betrayed her country that she swore to protect Hasn't she in fact protected her country from commiting further war crimes?
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      Has she? https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/15/america-is-committing-awful-war-crimes-and-it-doesnt-even-know-why/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/15/america-is-committing-a...
  - dependenttypes 7y ago
    > She wasn't technically a whistleblower How so? > technically she stole classified documents You can't steal online data. You can only copy it. > betrayed her country that she swore to protect Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the people. This sounds like a very honourable (and whistleblow-y) thing to do. > She was in fact sentenced by court-martial not by a regular court. Which is an extremely corrupt move.
    - mariorossi666 7y ago
      > You can't steal online data. You can only copy it that's stealing a document in anyone's book. > Exposed crimes against the constitution by the government and the military to the peopl You're arguing with me, but I agree with you, I'm simply saying that a military court said that. That's why I said technically. The law is all about technicalities. Manning wore a uniform, she was subject to court-martial, and court-martial ruled against her. I'm just reporting it. > Which is an extremely corrupt move. Which is what happens when you're in the armed forces and have to deal with justice. It's the same for everyone who joins the military. She wasn't treated in a special way.
- shadowgovt 7y ago
  Whistleblowing is a focused revelation of wrongdoing. Scraping the secret-classified documents of the State Department, handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing. At best, it's irresponsible; at worst, it's irresponsibility that walks right up to the edge of malicious treason. I'm very glad Manning wasn't convicted of treason, because she got dangerously close to it (apparently, her crimes are treason-equivalent in Canada).
  - colejohnson66 7y ago
    > handing them over to a foreign organization, and saying "You'll make the best use of this, I trust you" isn't whistleblowing. So Snowden isn’t a whistleblower because he gave them to the Guardian?
    - shadowgovt 7y ago
      There are two answers to that: technical (legal) and moral. Technical (legal): No, clearly not. There's a reason he's hiding from the US justice system in Russia. He didn't follow the legal process for whistleblowing (and he probably should not have). Moral: The major difference between Manning and Snowden's leaks is that Snowden read the documents he forwarded and only collected and forwarded enough to blow the whistle. Manning never read all the cables she extracted; she had no idea what the blast-radius of that declassification would be.
      - monocasa 7y ago
        As a contractor, there was no legal whistleblower process for him to follow. He did escalate internally as much as he could before the leaks though. Snowden also took a lot and leaked a massive dump, it was Greenwald, et al. that parred it down.
      - jcranberry 7y ago
        Snowden took and gave much more than he could possibly have read. In July 2014, The Washington Post reported on a cache previously provided by Snowden from domestic NSA operations consisting of "roughly 160,000 intercepted e-mail and instant-message conversations, some of them hundreds of pages long, and 7,900 documents taken from more than 11,000 online accounts." He did not read the 160k emails he provided to the Washington Post.
dependenttypes 7y ago
> the "entire intelligence community is deflated Anything that makes the intelligence community deflated is a good thing.
- mariorossi666 7y ago
  Unless it means that those attacks that the intelligence community prevented will take place.
  - voxic11 7y ago
    Maybe it will prevent some of those attacks that the intelligence community precipitated. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones/u-s-drone-strike-kills-30-pine-nut-farm-workers-in-afghanistan-idUSKBN1W40NW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack-drones...
    - dependenttypes 7y ago
      This is exactly how terrorists are created. Some poor farmer is going to care more about feeding his family than commit suicide missions. People who lost their whole family from an American drone attack however...
      - mariorossi666 7y ago
        > . People who lost their whole family from an American drone attack however... Will continue to care about more about feeding their family. There is no connection between being victim and becoming a terrorist or we in Italy should be all terrorists, because in the 70s a lot of people have been killed by state terrorists. Lookup Giorgiana Masi, for example, or Stefano Cucchi. Their families didn't kill anybody. They just asked for justice.
        monocasa 7y ago
        What's the pathway to justice for an Afghan family whose children were killed by a drone strike?
raxxorrax 7y ago
That casts a large shadow on the intelligence community if true.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]