5 ms·

I’ve never understood how some people believe that the problem of too much noise could be solved by adding more noise. There’s too much light in my eyes, and d

by ken 7y ago

I’ve never understood how some people believe that the problem of too much noise could be solved by adding more noise. There’s too much light in my eyes, and dark glasses are uncomfortable. Well, have you tried shining another light at your face? Maybe a different color of light would help.

stock_toaster 7y ago
ha. This comment really brightened my day (pun intended). Thank you for that.
waterhouse 7y ago
Your comment seems a bit tongue in cheek and you probably know, but anyway... Theoretically, the brain can get used to certain kinds of regular noise and filter it out, and then, if the disruption is a small sound that occurs irregularly... if you add constant white noise that's louder than the sound, then the sound should get quite literally lost in the noise. There is an analogy to light that actually applies. Imagine a small green LED in your field of vision that flashes now and then. Might be distracting. But now imagine the room is 100x brighter than that small green LED. You might be unable to perceive the LED anymore. (However, if the problem is, as you state, that there is "too much light", then, yeah, adding more light wouldn't help unless you could somehow create destructive interference.) Whether all this actually works for a specific person is a different matter. I personally hate listening to white noise, so that wouldn't help me. Perhaps other kinds of noise could work.
- wenc 7y ago
  White noise is actually very harsh. When people say "white noise" they usually mean softer variants such as brown noise. I sleep to brown noise (have done so for the past 8 years -- so this is not a fad thing for me), and I use a different brown noise with headphones at work to help me concentrate in a noisy office environment. I use Noisli profiles to generate these noises, but any number of apps will do the job. I won't claim it works for everyone, but this combination works very well for me. p.s. Ear plugs at work also work amazingly well. Low tech and effective.
- rtpg 7y ago
  > Theoretically, the brain can get used to certain kinds of regular noise and filter it out, and then, if the disruption is a small sound that occurs irregularly... if you add constant white noise that's louder than the sound, then the sound should get quite literally lost in the noise. Just an FYI, while this is basically true for neurotypical people, for some people (for example those with ADHD or who might be on the autism spectrum), there's difficulty filtering, so this ends up just adding cognitive load rather than accomplishing a filtering effect. To use a dumb visual analogy, imagine you tried to hide some carpet stains by putting another rug over it. Some people can partially see through rugs, and so now they have to deal with the rug _and_ the carpet stains. Of course this stuff is still worth trying out, ultimately a lot of these kinds of things are deeply personal, and it's pretty easy to try.
  - wahern 7y ago
    White noise machines are recommended for people with sound sensitivities who have trouble falling asleep, including those with ADHD and autism. Whether it works well or exacerbates the issue depends on the individual, but assuming that it would simply add to the cognitive load is a stretch, and I wouldn't be surprised if in fact it worked more often than not. One of the most popular white noise machines is the Marpac Dohm Classic, which many people (including myself) would vouch for.
    - rtpg 7y ago
      I didn't know that this product existed, it's interesting to see such a thing be around in the age of bluetooth speakers: https://www.amazon.com/Marpac-Classic-White-Noise-Machine/dp/B00HD0ELFK https://www.amazon.com/Marpac-Classic-White-Noise-Machine/dp... It's a fan in a box, with a certain shape so that when the fan is spinning it ends up generating a nice sound. Thanks for the info
  - nvarsj 7y ago
    I don’t think you’re correct. Stimulating background music (like EDM or video game OSTs) can do wonders for ADHD sufferers as it helps stimulate their brains which helps them focus (this is a similar mechanism to ADHD drugs).
- ken 7y ago
  > Theoretically, the brain can What “theory” is this? Because I’ve tried it (not by choice) in practice, many times, over the decades, and never found it to work at all. I’m genuinely curious why people think it could ever work, when empirically it does not. Theoretically the brain will adapt to working while hanging 100’ in the air, too. I adapt to height fairly quickly and don’t mind working up in the air. Many people apparently do, and no amount of telling them that it’s “theoretically” possible will make them productive workers there. It seems patently unfair that modern offices picked the one type of distracting sensory input that happens to be my kryptonite.
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    It's probably a "works for me" mindset accompanied with a mental note of "bug closed".
- teunispeters 7y ago
  If you're lucky enough to have that neural protection. Not everyone does. I don't, for instance. I damaged my hearing trying to have enough sound to drown out the triggering sounds around me. (misophonia got a lot worse during working in open office too)
zeta0134 7y ago
It's counter-intuitive, no? Actually though, the trick isn't to add more noise. Or... specifically, I suppose we need to first establish that the noise isn't the problem; noise is easy to tune out. Your brain is doing it right now: focus on your surroundings, and odds are there's the low hum of some air conditioner, or the whine of a CRT monitor, or the sound of that florescent ballast down the hall going out, or whatever. You barely even notice these things, because your brain is good at filtering out anything repetitive or constant. What kills productivity in an office environment is actually signals that cut through that noise. Phones ringing, conversations between coworkers, printers whirling to life, someone opening a cellophane wrapper and chewing on a candy, etc. Most of these things aren't useful, but they're distracting, because your brain is tuned to constantly be on the lookout for new audio signals to shift your focus to. This is probably a survival instinct, as becoming aware of an approaching predator is important to avoid becoming lunch. In an office, the goal isn't thus to add more noise, but to mask the noise, so that it is less distracting. Music is not "more noise," but more like a big, obvious beacon of focus. You might think of it like a controlled, intentional distraction. It's juuuust enough of an audio signal that your mind can keep its focus in one place, and just barely loud enough that when your coworkers phone rings, it isn't quite so jarring. That tiny, tiny little adjustment in the relative weight of the signals can make all the difference in the world, preventing you from unnecessary context switches throughout your day and helping you to maintain flow while working on a complex task. It's not perfect, no. Obviously the perfect environment would be 100% in the control of the worker, who could dictate the noise level and comfortable temperature and everything else on a personal level. But, well, the real world isn't perfect, and it can be good to have options. :)
6gvONxR4sf7o 7y ago
Ever been bothered by a bright clock in your bedroom? Or the bright red light on the smoke detector or thermostat? In a pitch black room, these lights annoy the shit out of me. Do those don't bother you more or less during the daytime in a sunlit room?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
richardw 7y ago
Sounds I choose let me create my own auditory environment, one that suits how I want to feel. Sounds my co-workers choose, don't. Ive got in-ear noise cancelling headphones and they're amazing. I often come up for air to hear a debate going on not far from me. Because they're noise cancelling I can set the volume lower than I would otherwise. Edit: I play music I know well so it doesn't distract. My wife uses rain/wave sounds. White noise would work for others.
x3ro 7y ago
It may seem contradictory, but for me it actually helps. I use a macOS app (Noizio) to get a mixture of different sounds (rain/thunder/fire) and, in combination with noise cancelling headphones, it is the only thing I've found that allows me to thoroughly concentrate in a noisy space.
- ddsea 7y ago
  Same here. I found out that music of any kind not only doesn't do the trick for me, but is counterproductive - it distracts me from trying to focus on the task at hand.
malux85 7y ago
Perception of sound is a differential sense. If you sit in a very quiet room your sensitivity to noise goes up, similar to how your pupils open when it’s dark. Noise cancelling AirPods and gentle background sounds may provide a smooth enough waveform to be ignored, while stopping the increase in audio sensitivity, and smooth out “spikes” of surrounding noise. Perception of sound is not just some cumulative scalar, that view is far too simplistic
pavel_lishin 7y ago
> I’ve never understood how some people believe that the problem of too much noise could be solved by adding more noise. They probably believe it because it works for them. Because it works for me.

by ken 7y ago

stock_toaster 7y ago

ha. This comment really brightened my day (pun intended). Thank you for that.

waterhouse 7y ago

Your comment seems a bit tongue in cheek and you probably know, but anyway... Theoretically, the brain can get used to certain kinds of regular noise and filter it out, and then, if the disruption is a small sound that occurs irregularly... if you add constant white noise that's louder than the sound, then the sound should get quite literally lost in the noise. There is an analogy to light that actually applies. Imagine a small green LED in your field of vision that flashes now and then. Might be distracting. But now imagine the room is 100x brighter than that small green LED. You might be unable to perceive the LED anymore. (However, if the problem is, as you state, that there is "too much light", then, yeah, adding more light wouldn't help unless you could somehow create destructive interference.) Whether all this actually works for a specific person is a different matter. I personally hate listening to white noise, so that wouldn't help me. Perhaps other kinds of noise could work.

wenc 7y ago
White noise is actually very harsh. When people say "white noise" they usually mean softer variants such as brown noise. I sleep to brown noise (have done so for the past 8 years -- so this is not a fad thing for me), and I use a different brown noise with headphones at work to help me concentrate in a noisy office environment. I use Noisli profiles to generate these noises, but any number of apps will do the job. I won't claim it works for everyone, but this combination works very well for me. p.s. Ear plugs at work also work amazingly well. Low tech and effective.
rtpg 7y ago
> Theoretically, the brain can get used to certain kinds of regular noise and filter it out, and then, if the disruption is a small sound that occurs irregularly... if you add constant white noise that's louder than the sound, then the sound should get quite literally lost in the noise. Just an FYI, while this is basically true for neurotypical people, for some people (for example those with ADHD or who might be on the autism spectrum), there's difficulty filtering, so this ends up just adding cognitive load rather than accomplishing a filtering effect. To use a dumb visual analogy, imagine you tried to hide some carpet stains by putting another rug over it. Some people can partially see through rugs, and so now they have to deal with the rug _and_ the carpet stains. Of course this stuff is still worth trying out, ultimately a lot of these kinds of things are deeply personal, and it's pretty easy to try.
- wahern 7y ago
  White noise machines are recommended for people with sound sensitivities who have trouble falling asleep, including those with ADHD and autism. Whether it works well or exacerbates the issue depends on the individual, but assuming that it would simply add to the cognitive load is a stretch, and I wouldn't be surprised if in fact it worked more often than not. One of the most popular white noise machines is the Marpac Dohm Classic, which many people (including myself) would vouch for.
  - rtpg 7y ago
    I didn't know that this product existed, it's interesting to see such a thing be around in the age of bluetooth speakers: https://www.amazon.com/Marpac-Classic-White-Noise-Machine/dp/B00HD0ELFK https://www.amazon.com/Marpac-Classic-White-Noise-Machine/dp... It's a fan in a box, with a certain shape so that when the fan is spinning it ends up generating a nice sound. Thanks for the info
- nvarsj 7y ago
  I don’t think you’re correct. Stimulating background music (like EDM or video game OSTs) can do wonders for ADHD sufferers as it helps stimulate their brains which helps them focus (this is a similar mechanism to ADHD drugs).
ken 7y ago
> Theoretically, the brain can What “theory” is this? Because I’ve tried it (not by choice) in practice, many times, over the decades, and never found it to work at all. I’m genuinely curious why people think it could ever work, when empirically it does not. Theoretically the brain will adapt to working while hanging 100’ in the air, too. I adapt to height fairly quickly and don’t mind working up in the air. Many people apparently do, and no amount of telling them that it’s “theoretically” possible will make them productive workers there. It seems patently unfair that modern offices picked the one type of distracting sensory input that happens to be my kryptonite.
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  It's probably a "works for me" mindset accompanied with a mental note of "bug closed".
teunispeters 7y ago
If you're lucky enough to have that neural protection. Not everyone does. I don't, for instance. I damaged my hearing trying to have enough sound to drown out the triggering sounds around me. (misophonia got a lot worse during working in open office too)

zeta0134 7y ago

It's counter-intuitive, no? Actually though, the trick isn't to add more noise. Or... specifically, I suppose we need to first establish that the noise isn't the problem; noise is easy to tune out. Your brain is doing it right now: focus on your surroundings, and odds are there's the low hum of some air conditioner, or the whine of a CRT monitor, or the sound of that florescent ballast down the hall going out, or whatever. You barely even notice these things, because your brain is good at filtering out anything repetitive or constant. What kills productivity in an office environment is actually signals that cut through that noise. Phones ringing, conversations between coworkers, printers whirling to life, someone opening a cellophane wrapper and chewing on a candy, etc. Most of these things aren't useful, but they're distracting, because your brain is tuned to constantly be on the lookout for new audio signals to shift your focus to. This is probably a survival instinct, as becoming aware of an approaching predator is important to avoid becoming lunch. In an office, the goal isn't thus to add more noise, but to mask the noise, so that it is less distracting. Music is not "more noise," but more like a big, obvious beacon of focus. You might think of it like a controlled, intentional distraction. It's juuuust enough of an audio signal that your mind can keep its focus in one place, and just barely loud enough that when your coworkers phone rings, it isn't quite so jarring. That tiny, tiny little adjustment in the relative weight of the signals can make all the difference in the world, preventing you from unnecessary context switches throughout your day and helping you to maintain flow while working on a complex task. It's not perfect, no. Obviously the perfect environment would be 100% in the control of the worker, who could dictate the noise level and comfortable temperature and everything else on a personal level. But, well, the real world isn't perfect, and it can be good to have options. :)

6gvONxR4sf7o 7y ago

Ever been bothered by a bright clock in your bedroom? Or the bright red light on the smoke detector or thermostat? In a pitch black room, these lights annoy the shit out of me. Do those don't bother you more or less during the daytime in a sunlit room?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

richardw 7y ago

Sounds I choose let me create my own auditory environment, one that suits how I want to feel. Sounds my co-workers choose, don't. Ive got in-ear noise cancelling headphones and they're amazing. I often come up for air to hear a debate going on not far from me. Because they're noise cancelling I can set the volume lower than I would otherwise. Edit: I play music I know well so it doesn't distract. My wife uses rain/wave sounds. White noise would work for others.

x3ro 7y ago

It may seem contradictory, but for me it actually helps. I use a macOS app (Noizio) to get a mixture of different sounds (rain/thunder/fire) and, in combination with noise cancelling headphones, it is the only thing I've found that allows me to thoroughly concentrate in a noisy space.

ddsea 7y ago
Same here. I found out that music of any kind not only doesn't do the trick for me, but is counterproductive - it distracts me from trying to focus on the task at hand.

malux85 7y ago

Perception of sound is a differential sense. If you sit in a very quiet room your sensitivity to noise goes up, similar to how your pupils open when it’s dark. Noise cancelling AirPods and gentle background sounds may provide a smooth enough waveform to be ignored, while stopping the increase in audio sensitivity, and smooth out “spikes” of surrounding noise. Perception of sound is not just some cumulative scalar, that view is far too simplistic

pavel_lishin 7y ago

> I’ve never understood how some people believe that the problem of too much noise could be solved by adding more noise. They probably believe it because it works for them. Because it works for me.