8 ms·

If you have 6 months expenses saved, you don't need same day access. You keep 1 month in an immediate access account and 5 in the high yield savings account.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). YMMV, but there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get those funds within seconds (if I'm adequately authenticated). With a wire, I can get it same day (if executed by ~3pm eastern). I shouldn't need to pay for a wire, or talk to a human unless a fraud signal was detected. I'm not a hedge fund seeking tens of millions of dollars of liquidity of a cash equivalent in a moment. These dollar amounts are trivial (<$100k). Financial services users should be able to have access to and be able to move their funds through financial plumbing inexpensively and rapidly. Fix the plumbing, raise the bar with regulations on financial services providers to commodify the offerings.
- cstoner 7y ago
  > I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). That seems like a perfect use case for using a credit card to cover the expense and then pay yourself back when your money moves out of the savings account. I have trouble imagining a case outside of a hostage situation where you would need access to your emergency fund same day.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Two examples: Auto purchase where there was an issue with the banking partner of the vehicle manufacturer. Another is a real estate transaction. Bailing friends out of jail is always cheap (~$500), but not everyone takes credit cards (no chance for the first two scenarios). Fundamentally, I should not have to explain why I would desire immediate access to my own cash reserves at a moment's notice to excuse broken financial infrastructure.
    - cstoner 7y ago
      Your examples seem like cases that can easily be handled by a checking account. > Fundamentally, I should not have to explain why I would desire immediate access to my own cash reserves at a moment's notice to excuse broken financial infrastructure. Yes, if you are investing in less-liquid assets to get a better RoI then you absolutely do. If you don't like the terms then you are free to keep your cash in your checking account.
      - tlb 7y ago
        Most people are reluctant to accept large personal checks for one-shot transactions. Most people selling cars on Craigslist won't just take a personal check, for instance. It depends a bit on how reputable you look. You can't write one as bail, or to get your car out of the impound lot.
        perl4ever 7y ago
        Most people are reluctant to accept large certified checks or money orders, going back to at least the 90s, because of counterfeits.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        Personal and certified checks aren’t immediate or same day settlement, only wires or Zelle transfers are (Zelle transfers can take more than a day depending on the sending and receiving bank). If the settlement isn’t rapid, you can’t guarantee the funds will actually settle (checks). Lots of situations where someone wants the same guarantee as cash or a wire.
      - IggleSniggle 7y ago
        Just bought a brand new car this week from a dealership (US) and the seller refused to accept a check.
        ceejayoz 7y ago
        They’ll generally accept a cashier’s check. Ours would also accept a personal one as long as you didn’t mind them delaying mailing the title for a few weeks.
  - fuzzfactor 7y ago
    I wouldn't expect Shelby, Mercedes, and their sisters to be held for cash every day myself, but if you really want to bring them home one of the most worthwhile options is cashthedayofthesaleasiswhereisnowarrantiesofany kind. http://www.classic-carauction.com/featured-cars?auctionid=10742 http://www.classic-carauction.com/featured-cars?auctionid=10...
    - cstoner 7y ago
      If you're buying a classic car with funds directly from your emergency fund, then more power to you I guess but maybe you should be less impulsive with money set aside for emergencies. Personally, if I'm expecting to make a large cash purchase I have more than a few days notice.
      - brycesbeard 7y ago
        Many people plan poorly and have to sell collectibles quickly for immediate cash. I know people who buy and sell cars purchased from folks who need money quickly (matter of hours) and will get crazy deals simply because they have cash on hand on eg a Sunday evening.
        fuzzfactor 7y ago
        That particular auction is coming up in a few days. Much more within reach to bid on a regular used car at the common auctions that regular used car dealers buy from. Or you could purchase more leisurely from the dealer on his terms. Either way their offices will often display a tattered old sign: _Cash Talks and BS Walks_.
- dr_dshiv 7y ago
  You should see how easy it is to do these things in the Netherlands. No charge to wire money to an individual or business. No transaction cost for paying by card. Pay online with ideal for 0%, just scan qr code with bank app. Simple and easy.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Europe in general would be my example for how banking should be done.
    - coolio2657 7y ago
      Would you be willing to go into more detail on why banking is better in Europe? They seem to have their own problems, too.
    - briandear 7y ago
      If France is part of Europe, then no f’ing way. It’s a nightmare: arbitrary limits on debit cards, large transfers have to be done in person at your specific branch. The security requirements are Byzantine. For example, to get a new pin code, they actually mail you paper, you can do it in a branch. International money transfers require permission (only obtained at your specific branch.) They charge a monthly fee to have a Visa debit card and to get a “Gold” version with higher limits, you have to pay them more. Paper checks are still vastly preferred in France (for paying school fees, etc.) Banking in France is just one step above banking in Korea or China. French bank fees make American fees look positively discount by comparison. That you have to go into your specific physical branch to do certain things is ridiculous. I can go into any Chase in the US and do anything I could do at my normal “home” branch. N26 (a German bank) was vastly superior but even that had limitations, especially with moving money around internationally. The grass is always greener on the other side.
      - Totoradio 7y ago
        YMMV I guess. I'm in France too and none of those points apply to my experience (except the monthly fee for the debit card and the snail mail for the new PIN). I have not set foot in my physical branch in 10 years, and have not written a paper check since 2011.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). YMMV, but there's no reason I shouldn't be able to get those funds within seconds (if I'm adequately authenticated). With a wire, I can get it same day (if executed by ~3pm eastern). I shouldn't need to pay for a wire, or talk to a human unless a fraud signal was detected. I'm not a hedge fund seeking tens of millions of dollars of liquidity of a cash equivalent in a moment. These dollar amounts are trivial (<$100k). Financial services users should be able to have access to and be able to move their funds through financial plumbing inexpensively and rapidly. Fix the plumbing, raise the bar with regulations on financial services providers to commodify the offerings.

cstoner 7y ago
> I have had to come up with a dollar amount worth several months of expenses on very short notice (same day, life is unpredictable). That seems like a perfect use case for using a credit card to cover the expense and then pay yourself back when your money moves out of the savings account. I have trouble imagining a case outside of a hostage situation where you would need access to your emergency fund same day.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Two examples: Auto purchase where there was an issue with the banking partner of the vehicle manufacturer. Another is a real estate transaction. Bailing friends out of jail is always cheap (~$500), but not everyone takes credit cards (no chance for the first two scenarios). Fundamentally, I should not have to explain why I would desire immediate access to my own cash reserves at a moment's notice to excuse broken financial infrastructure.
  - cstoner 7y ago
    Your examples seem like cases that can easily be handled by a checking account. > Fundamentally, I should not have to explain why I would desire immediate access to my own cash reserves at a moment's notice to excuse broken financial infrastructure. Yes, if you are investing in less-liquid assets to get a better RoI then you absolutely do. If you don't like the terms then you are free to keep your cash in your checking account.
    - tlb 7y ago
      Most people are reluctant to accept large personal checks for one-shot transactions. Most people selling cars on Craigslist won't just take a personal check, for instance. It depends a bit on how reputable you look. You can't write one as bail, or to get your car out of the impound lot.
      - perl4ever 7y ago
        Most people are reluctant to accept large certified checks or money orders, going back to at least the 90s, because of counterfeits.
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      Personal and certified checks aren’t immediate or same day settlement, only wires or Zelle transfers are (Zelle transfers can take more than a day depending on the sending and receiving bank). If the settlement isn’t rapid, you can’t guarantee the funds will actually settle (checks). Lots of situations where someone wants the same guarantee as cash or a wire.
    - IggleSniggle 7y ago
      Just bought a brand new car this week from a dealership (US) and the seller refused to accept a check.
      - ceejayoz 7y ago
        They’ll generally accept a cashier’s check. Ours would also accept a personal one as long as you didn’t mind them delaying mailing the title for a few weeks.
- fuzzfactor 7y ago
  I wouldn't expect Shelby, Mercedes, and their sisters to be held for cash every day myself, but if you really want to bring them home one of the most worthwhile options is cashthedayofthesaleasiswhereisnowarrantiesofany kind. http://www.classic-carauction.com/featured-cars?auctionid=10742 http://www.classic-carauction.com/featured-cars?auctionid=10...
  - cstoner 7y ago
    If you're buying a classic car with funds directly from your emergency fund, then more power to you I guess but maybe you should be less impulsive with money set aside for emergencies. Personally, if I'm expecting to make a large cash purchase I have more than a few days notice.
    - brycesbeard 7y ago
      Many people plan poorly and have to sell collectibles quickly for immediate cash. I know people who buy and sell cars purchased from folks who need money quickly (matter of hours) and will get crazy deals simply because they have cash on hand on eg a Sunday evening.
      - fuzzfactor 7y ago
        That particular auction is coming up in a few days. Much more within reach to bid on a regular used car at the common auctions that regular used car dealers buy from. Or you could purchase more leisurely from the dealer on his terms. Either way their offices will often display a tattered old sign: _Cash Talks and BS Walks_.
dr_dshiv 7y ago
You should see how easy it is to do these things in the Netherlands. No charge to wire money to an individual or business. No transaction cost for paying by card. Pay online with ideal for 0%, just scan qr code with bank app. Simple and easy.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Europe in general would be my example for how banking should be done.
  - coolio2657 7y ago
    Would you be willing to go into more detail on why banking is better in Europe? They seem to have their own problems, too.
  - briandear 7y ago
    If France is part of Europe, then no f’ing way. It’s a nightmare: arbitrary limits on debit cards, large transfers have to be done in person at your specific branch. The security requirements are Byzantine. For example, to get a new pin code, they actually mail you paper, you can do it in a branch. International money transfers require permission (only obtained at your specific branch.) They charge a monthly fee to have a Visa debit card and to get a “Gold” version with higher limits, you have to pay them more. Paper checks are still vastly preferred in France (for paying school fees, etc.) Banking in France is just one step above banking in Korea or China. French bank fees make American fees look positively discount by comparison. That you have to go into your specific physical branch to do certain things is ridiculous. I can go into any Chase in the US and do anything I could do at my normal “home” branch. N26 (a German bank) was vastly superior but even that had limitations, especially with moving money around internationally. The grass is always greener on the other side.
    - Totoradio 7y ago
      YMMV I guess. I'm in France too and none of those points apply to my experience (except the monthly fee for the debit card and the snail mail for the new PIN). I have not set foot in my physical branch in 10 years, and have not written a paper check since 2011.