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Most important point: Apple fixed the keyboard by ditching the flawed keyboard used for the past 3 years and returning to the Magic Keyboard scissor switch desi
by JohnTHaller 7y ago
Most important point: Apple fixed the keyboard by ditching the flawed keyboard used for the past 3 years and returning to the Magic Keyboard scissor switch design. Comparing the 'new' keyboard to the Magic Keyboard: "side by side, we're hard pressed to spot any differences. Scissor switches, keycaps... There's slightly less space surrounding these new keys, and pundits will celebrate those reconfigured arrow keys—but everything else looks nigh identical."
- webwielder2 7y agoThe Magic Keyboard design is not the 2012-2015 MBP keyboard design, it's the design from their line of external keyboards. iFixit's jokey intro is misleading in this regard.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- pwthornton 7y agoThis is correct. The Magic keyboard has been beloved for several years, and it is not a keyboard that has ever been in a laptop before.
- inferiorhuman 7y agoUgh. I despise the "magic" keyboard as there's way too little travel. I always found the whole thing a bit physically painful. It's never going to happen but I'd love to see a return of the Aluminum / Titanium PowerBook keyboard.
- jacobolus 7y agoThose were great, but having slightly sculpted keytops and longer travel takes an extra 2–3 millimeters of vertical space, which isn’t going to cut it if the #1 goal is for the folded up machine to be as thin as possible. Personally I wish sommeone went back to the keyboards used on IBM 5140 or IBM P70. Probably not too likely though. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_Convertible https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_Convertible https://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_P70/P75_keyboard https://deskthority.net/wiki/IBM_P70/P75_keyboard
- torgian 7y agoMeh. Give me a fully mechanical keyboard in a somewhat portable body. Like those old Apple IIe boxes. This is a joke btw.
- jacobolus 7y agoThe two I linked to were “fully mechanical keyboards in a somewhat portable body” (for very modest definitions of “somewhat portable” – they were 13 and 20 pounds, respectively). Not really “laptops”, but two fantastic keyboards.
- torgian 7y agoTBH I was trying for a joke, but it came out pretty flat ._.
- DennisP 7y agoIt's a joke for you but a laptop with a good mech keyboard is exactly what I want. I plug a mechanical keyboard into my laptop all the time, because it's easier on my fingers. A thicker laptop that I can type on is better for me than carrying around a separate mech and putting the laptop on a nearby flat surface instead of my lap.
- gambiting 7y agoThose do exist - MSI and Asus made a few recently I'm sure. For example: https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/msi-gt75vr-titan-pro https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/msi-gt75vr-titan-p... I mean, at 4.5kg it's extremely heavy for a laptop, but it does have a mechanical keyboard and very beefy spec.
- magashna 7y agoThat's for a very niche, need to game on the go, market. It's otherwise ridiculous looking
- C1sc0cat 7y agoAnd I found that the ones that came with a previous employers mac minis tended to fail quite quickly I had 2 or 3 in my parts cupboard with all the other broken and old equipment. And I also did not like the feel Put it this way I brought in an old Zenith keyboard from a p90 system from the mid 90's to use instead.
- cassianoleal 7y agoPersonally, I prefer the MBP2015 keyboard to the Magic Keyboard. I have been to an Apple Store recently to try out the MBP16's keyboard and it's good - but not as good as the one I'm typing this on. I also don't understand the obsession with key stability on the corners. I like the instability. I use it when I'm touch typing - it gives my fingers a lot more tactile feedback.
- torgian 7y agoThat probably means the keyboard isn’t that good ;) Sloppiness shouldn’t make it feel better.
- dannyw 7y agoInstability allows you to know exactly where your fingertip is positioned once you know it.
- visarga 7y agoHaving the keycaps slightly curved inside allows for better finger positioning.
- ahartmetz 7y agoYes! Fujitsu desktop keyboards have rather pronounced concave keys - not fashionable but very nice to type on. (They have also figured out tactile response with rubber domes.)
- lostgame 7y agoI miss the 2004-2007 PowerBook / OG MacBook Pro keyboard. Curved keys, great feeling on depression, this was paradise for me.
- cassianoleal 7y agoExactly this. Also, the instability means the keyboard is more forgiving of small aim mistakes. If my finger presses 10% of the wrong key and 90% of the right one, key stability on the corners will mean the keyboard registers both. On the 2015 keyboard it only registers the one I meant. The fact that it wobbles also gives my fingers an extra milisecond to adjust position if it feels it's wrong. It's also more obvious when I did hit the wrong place and I can automatically reach for the backspace/delete key without even thinking or noticing the wrong key visually on screen. It's overall a more fluid typing experience. This is especially useful when I'm typing at night or if my fingers are not moving optimally - like when they're cold or otherwise tight or tired.
- eugeniub 7y agoTo me it actually seems that the 16" keyboard is a brand new keyboard, that has never been in any laptop or external keyboard. But it's derived from the external Magic Keyboard and shares the marketing name. It has 1mmb of key travel, which is less than the 1.25mm of the external Magic Keyboard. It's also less than the 1.35mm of the 2015 MBP. But it's much more than the 0.5mm travel of the Butterfly keyboard. This is all to say that although the 16" MBP has a new scissor-based keyboard, it's not quite fair to say it's the same as the Magic Keyboard. And although it probably fixes all of the keyboard woes of the past couple years, I would still wait a few months and see.
- gnicholas 7y agoI love (and am typing this on) a bluetooth keyboard that came with my 2008 iMac. Is the "magic keyboard" (which apparently came out in 2015 and is lower-profile than its predecessors) sufficiently better to warrant the moniker "magic"?
- agloeregrets 7y agoThey branded it as such to match the Magic Mouse and Magic Trackpad (the only product to earn the name) It is a rechargeable Bluetooth keyboard, no real magic, little innovation. It is a very nice Bluetooth keyboard though, reliable, easy to clean, feels higher quality
- nbevans 7y agoI have a full size Magic keyboard (because my MBP 2018 keys started dying and they couldn't guarantee same-day repair) and it really isn't all that. Sometimes I get a similar feeling as the MBP keyboard in that it seems to "miss" keystrokes, or get them in the wrong order. Though admittedly the worse MBP characteristic of doubling or tripling up a single keystroke is not there.
- Twirrim 7y agoI rarely complain about that kind of stuff, but the sheer number of jokes in that article had it reaching the "trying too hard to be funny" stage in near record time.
- larusso 7y agoI felt the same way. And I consider myself a very funny person. Like it’s written by Deadpool.
- skocznymroczny 7y agoI wish Apple released a butterfly switch external keyboard. I know I am in a minority here but I really loved these new flat keyboards on Macbooks and I'd love to have a keyboard like that for my Windows PC.
- nautical 7y agoHow long you have been using the keyboard ? Mine got screwed after couple of months of usage (I took really good care of it as I had read about the initial backlash)
- Ralfp 7y agoI've got my MBP in November 2016, as soon as it became available in my country. I was using it at home and office, carrying between both of those locations using sleeve, taking extra care to don't mess my precious new laptop up. Its keyboard worked perfectly all this time. Reading about all the keyboard woes others had, I've been wondering if I am just lucky. In November 2018 I've traveled to another town with my laptop (in the sleeve, as usual). This was single day travel and it turned out that I've didn't even have to pull it from the bag a single time. After coming home 10 hours later I've pulled my laptop from the sleeve and pressed "R" key. It didn't "click". I've pressed it again. It didn't click either, but it sticked to the tip of my finger and popped out of its slot. I was now part of the people blessed with keyboard fault.
- bpye 7y agoBut it's riveted to the chassis - you cannot replace the keyboard still.
- EpicEng 7y agoApple will never give you a modular, easy to repair system. It just isn't going to happen, time to move on.
- ergothus 7y agoWhile you make a solid point about likely behavior, I'm sure there are those that said Microsoft will never cooperate with Linux. "Never" is a bold word, and it's worth highlighting things like a hard-to-replace/repair keyboard to keep on that tiny bit of pressure to change (how often have you been in a meeting where "customers aren't asking for this" came up as a justification to not make a change?). Also, just to let people KNOW - when buying a laptop you may not be considering if the keyboard is easy to service. Plenty of developers on any given day are making their first foray into these sorts of decisions, and there's nothing wrong with pointing out that which is obvious if you've been following for a decade but not if you're new to it.
- braythwayt 7y agoPerhaps another way to put it is, "This iteration of Apple will never..." Which carries with it a significant piece of information: Someone saying this is claiming that there is some structural or cultural obstacle, and that the company would have to change its nature in order to effect the requried change. That was the case with Microsoft and Linux as well.
- EpicEng 7y agoThat's fair, but it would take a massive change in both consumer behavior and Apple's target audience to make something like this come about. But hey, ya never know.
- 7y ago
- wetpaws 7y agoThe easiest way to improve a good laptop is to make a bad update and then revert it.
- stcredzero 7y agoIt's the "New Coke" maneuver.
- rzzzt 7y agoThe Sonic movie's main character redesign is also a good example.
- machello13 7y agoThis is exactly what Apple said they did.
- Razengan 7y agoI personally dislike the shortened left and right arrow keys. Where can I raise a mob to clamor about it so I can have the full-sized keys back in 3 years?
- choppaface 7y agoKey travel for the 2016 is 1mm. The "bad" keyboards had 0.5-0.7mm travel. 2015 and earlier had 1.2-1.5mm travel. Not sure about the reliability of the new mechanism, but the 2016 keyboard does feel much more like the old 2015 one. https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/11/15/heres-what-the-16-inch-macbook-pro-keyboard-sounds-like https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/11/15/heres-what-the-16...
- VvR-Ox 7y agoThis is one of the reasons I didn't buy any new MBP after 2016 anymore. I was so unsatisfied with many changes ranging from the keyboard disaster to the loss of ports that are still industry standard and used every day for some years to come. Probably this is the start for Apple to find back to some quality and say goodbye to strange experiments. Users should feel good using a device and not pay a lot of $$$ to become Beta-Test Lab Rats.
- gbersac 7y agoI personnaly support their "all usb C" politics. A world where every device will share the same cable will be better.
- allendoerfer 7y agoAll phones do. Except that one from Apple.
- VvR-Ox 7y agoI basically concur but not all of us can just "flick a switch" here. The most of my customers still need a lot of "obsolete" connectors as well as my devices which I won't replace just because they have no USB-C yet. In 5-10 years maybe but they will come up with other standards until then and the race will go on. I think it is a matter of your domain(s) how cutting-edge your choices can be.
- w1nst0nsm1th 7y agoThese were no experiment. These changes were only a matter of cutting cost. The new butterfly system was cheaper to produce than the old one. Old keyboard design were more complicated. And the keys made from a more sturdy plastic. I have removed and replaced several keys on both kind keyboard and I broke partially 2 key from the new keyboard, using a more fragile plastic but none of the old version, this taking account to the fact that the new key were more easy to remove. The USB-C choice was also about reducing cost. Integrate 2 USB-C is less expensive than integrate 1 power input, 2 thunderbolts, 2 USB 3, 1 card reader, and 1 hdmi output. Removing the MacSafe for the cheap defective usb-c power plug (after 1 year, the cable don't stay stuck anymore in the USB-C, causing the macbook battery to discharge without useur knowledge, and forcing him to push back the cable a least 10 time as day because of the low quality of the component, no matter the cable you used to plug your macbook) was also about cutting cost. On the pretense to changing design and and adopting new trends, the have cut cost by reducing the quality and the number of feature of their computer. That's how they became the richest company in the world.